Bladder stones, and the calcium carbonate content of cardboard chew toys.

[Digital-Sneeze]

So a few years ago I lost a guinea pig to bladder stones, and it got me to thinking about sources of calcium carbonate.

The most noted sources of calcium tend be cited as being water, pellets and high calcium food, but it got me to wondering about cardboard.

Obviously I'm not a scientist, but some brief research let me to believe that paper often contains very high levels of calcium carbonate, which gives it its white colour, but I'm wondering if cardboard products, most notably things like Rosewood Naturals toys, especially their hay cubes and carrot cottages, may also contain high levels of calcium carbonate, despite them typically being brown.

I'm just wondering if anyone has any insight into this, and if there's the potential that guinea pigs (and rabbits etc) may be consuming high quantities of calcium carbonate from the ingestion of cardboard.

Hopefully I'm completely off the mark, anyway.

 

[ScrufflesRules]

I've also lost guinea pigs due to bladder stones, so I'll be interested to see if anyone has any ideas (although they never consumed cardboard in significant quantities).

 

[Digital-Sneeze]

I've also lost guinea pigs due to bladder stones, so I'll be interested to see if anyone has any ideas (although they never consumed cardboard in significant quantities).

I use hay cubes and carrot cottages fairy often so I'm definitely interested in a more scientific perspective than my own.

 

[Wiebke]

Piggies shouldn't eat large quantities of cardboard in one go anyway (it can cause blockages) so it shouldn't really make any difference.

In the UK, hard water is the biggest calcium provider before pellets and only thirdly before veg - the water angle gets all too often overlooked since the USA is mainly a soft water country so any US based advice can be tricky for UK owners.
If you take care of the water by either filtering or using low calcium bottled water, this frees up your veg allowance a bit more. Please keep in mind that you can also contribute to the formation of stones by going too low in the calcium content.

 

[Gingerspider]

This is interesting...my boar started showing symptoms of his stones when we switched to cardboard bedding from wood. He does like to chew/eat literally everything but assumed the bedding was safe.
We live in a soft water area, cut out all high calcium foods including nuggets so I have been wondering how he's ended up with this out the blue. If he makes it out this op, I'm switching to fleece for a bit to see if it helps

 

[Piggies&buns]

This is interesting...my boar started showing symptoms of his stones when we switched to cardboard bedding from wood. He does like to chew/eat literally everything but assumed the bedding was safe.
We live in a soft water area, cut out all high calcium foods including nuggets so I have been wondering how he's ended up with this out the blue. If he makes it out this op, I'm switching to fleece for a bit to see if it helps

I'm sorry to hear this. I hope all goes well with his op.
Going too low with calcium can cause stones as well - the balance is still wrong, it's just wrong in the other direction.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi

Unfortunately, a diet too low in calcium can also lead to stones. There is a 'soft spot' in the diet where everything is just in balance. With soft water and reduced pellets, you can go a bit higher with the calcium content in your veg.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

The problem is that that soft spot is not in the same place for everybody around the world, depending on water hardness/mineral content and what veg are available.

For stones several factors of a whole range of contributing factors usually need to come to together (genetic disposition, a change in the complex calcium absorption process, not being a good natural drinker or dietary imbalances) - diet is just ythe one area we can influence. You cannot just flood piggies that get all the fluid they need from their veg with water without risking overhydration (potentially fatal) and you cannot make them drink more. There is nothing you can do about a genetic disposition or the absorption/processing process going wrong. Only if you have unrelated piggies and they all or nearly all develop stones, then you can be sure that your diet well off balance in either way.

 

[Gingerspider]

Thank you. It's been so frustrating the last few months, trying to tweak everything to see if it helps. Nothing seems to have had a correlation (apart from stress definitely makes it worse)
Our other piggy is fine. No issues.
Martin isn't a great drinker but we've been encouraging that too. Just trying to look for correlations to try and make sure we aren't making things worse.