Bladder stone

[Josie_lg]

Hello everyone. I’m sad to be posting so soon. But unfortunately my sweet poppy has been diagnosed with a bladder stone. She has had problems on and off with her bladder since may 2021 and everything came back clear. We haven’t done a urinary sample in a while but she’s been doing so well. The last couple of months we’ve noticed flare ups more often. This last flare up has been the worst yet. More blood than normal and lost weight. She is on nutracyst and metacam long term. I took her to work with me today (I work in a vets) we did an ultrasound and I collected urine last night. She then had a CT-all conscious. She was so well behaved. And she has a bladder stone. The vet said it’s too large to passI can’t believe two CT scans in one week two ultrasounds and two devastating diagnosis with my other piggie buttercup being diagnosed with a uterine tumour this week. She’s had a bolus of fluids at work. We’ve got her home. She’s very happy to be with buttercup again. The vet has given me gabapentin to start to help with the pain. We have an appointment on Tuesday with a specialist at another clinic to help us further. The CT has been sent away for interpretation but the stone was clear from the images. I’m giving her critical care also just to try and keep her weight up especially if she’ll be having surgery soon.
Does anyone have any advice with bladder stones and crystals?
The vet today said she needs to look into the crystals further (calcium carbonate) to offer treatment advice. The vet on Tuesday should be able to guide us further. I’ve heard of potassium citrate for crystals but not sure what crystals this is for and if it’s effective? Please send my poppy and buttercup well wishes and any advice with bladder stones and surgery is very much appreciated

 

[weepweeps]

Sending Poppy and Buttercup healing vibes and a hug for you.

I’m sorry but I didn’t have a positive experience with my Percy and his bladder stone. But other pigs have had them removed and recovered fine.

 

[Josie_lg]

Sending Poppy and Buttercup healing vibes and a hug for you.

I’m sorry but I didn’t have a positive experience with my Percy and his bladder stone. But other pigs have had them removed and recovered fine.

Thank you

 

[Josie_lg]

Hello everyone. Poppy had her bladder stone removed today. The surgery went well and she is home. But she’s very out of it, breathing is very fast. They said the rapid breathing would be the pain. She ate a bit at the vets and they have her lots of syringe feeding, she did a few poops and a wee. However no interest at home so of course I will be syringe feeding all throughout the night. I’ll be honest I’m a nervous wreck. I hate seeing her like this. She’s slightly crackly too which I’ve been told should go away in the next day or so.
Any experience with post op piggies please share. I’ve had piggies 12 years and this is the first time one has needed surgery. Thank you xx

 

[weepweeps]

Sending Poppy healing vibes and a quick recovery.

Here is Percy’s thread. Like I said unfortunately Percy didn’t make it. I’m posting his thread here to help you in the next day or two to help you notice when things are not going well. Everyone gave amazing advice on this thread. Hopefully it will be helpful for Poppy too.

Percy’s turn

I was told by the nurse that by the afternoon the day after surgery he should be up and walking around. Don’t leave it too long before you act. If you are worried call the vets and ask their advice.

Keep Poppy warm this evening (not hot). Good luck.

 

[Free Ranger]

I've not had much luck with surgeries. My boar who was castrated apparently came round and started eating like nothing had happened! But I've lost two soon after general anaesthetic. It's good advice to keep her warm - if you have those snugglesafe pads they're good but we've also used warm hot water bottles well wrapped in towels. As we have the plastic tray cages we tuck a rubber bottle on the outside of the cage which warms up one of the walls - then they just lean against that.
George has taken a liking to drinking water from a little syringe since he's had his bladder trouble. He seems to have a raging thirst some days but doesn't want to use his bottle. I always worried about syringing pure liquids but he leans out of the hidey looking for it. Using a small 1ml syringe means I'm just dribbling it in until he turns away. Perhaps even if she's not keen on eating in the night she'll wet her dry mouth on a little water. You could always try detaching a drinking bottle and holding it out to her if she's not wanting to move.
We'll be thinking of you - stay strong little Poppy and you'll start to feel better soon x

PS Assuming they gave metacam (hopefully a hefty dose of the 1.5mg/ml doggy one)

 

[Josie_lg]

Sending Poppy healing vibes and a quick recovery.

Here is Percy’s thread. Like I said unfortunately Percy didn’t make it. I’m posting his thread here to help you in the next day or two to help you notice when things are not going well. Everyone gave amazing advice on this thread. Hopefully it will be helpful for Poppy too.

Percy’s turn

I was told by the nurse that by the afternoon the day after surgery he should be up and walking around. Don’t leave it too long before you act. If you are worried call the vets and ask their advice.

Keep Poppy warm this evening (not hot). Good luck.

Thank you so much for your well wishes. I’m so so sorry to hear about Percy. I am so worried. I really am. It’s a terrifying experience. I have had a read through I really appreciate it. If her breathings the same tomorrow they’ve said we can have even stronger meds. She’s already on metacam and gabapentin. She’s very prone to getting crackes and honking which has been investigated with nothing found. Other than a tiny “lesion” thing on her lung which we were told is congenital. So the crackling she’s doing now is the same as that noise she does every now and again. I have to say despite being a student vet nurse and literally caring for post op patients every day of my life this is way out of my comfort zone, we predominantly see dogs and cats which of course recover much easier than piggies

 

[Josie_lg]

I've not had much luck with surgeries. My boar who was castrated apparently came round and started eating like nothing had happened! But I've lost two soon after general anaesthetic. It's good advice to keep her warm - if you have those snugglesafe pads they're good but we've also used warm hot water bottles well wrapped in towels. As we have the plastic tray cages we tuck a rubber bottle on the outside of the cage which warms up one of the walls - then they just lean against that.
George has taken a liking to drinking water from a little syringe since he's had his bladder trouble. He seems to have a raging thirst some days but doesn't want to use his bottle. I always worried about syringing pure liquids but he leans out of the hidey looking for it. Using a small 1ml syringe means I'm just dribbling it in until he turns away. Perhaps even if she's not keen on eating in the night she'll wet her dry mouth on a little water. You could always try detaching a drinking bottle and holding it out to her if she's not wanting to move.
We'll be thinking of you - stay strong little Poppy and you'll start to feel better soon x

PS Assuming they gave metacam (hopefully a hefty dose of the 1.5mg/ml doggy one)

Thank you for your reply. Well she’s been on metacam long term, so they couldn’t give any more in surgery as it was given last night what’s annoying is ive asked for dog metacam before and I’ve been told no it’s not licensed
Yes we have a snuggle safe for her, she’s in her hidey with the snuggle safe underneath her wrapped in a fleece liner, then she’s in a pen with fleece liners in our living room. They’ve offered something a big stronger if her breathing is still the same tomorrow. She’s already on metacam and gabapentin.
She’s eaten a handful of veggies this evening and taken syringe feeding. She’s just very sleepy and groggy and doesn’t want to move out of her bed.

 

[Josie_lg]

I must say though if we do go back tomorrow for more pain meds then I may ask about the dog metacam. As this is a differant vet to who I originally asked about the dog metacam before xx

 

[Free Ranger]

Mine let me sign a waiver form because quite a few of the vets are old enough to have been dishing out the strong stuff for a few years before the cat version got its piggy licence. If she's eaten something that's a good sign, even if she's groggy. The ones I've lost after a surgery didn't want to eat anything at all. My vet doesn't typically feed them between 11 and 6 or 7 I think - although there is someone there on duty to do it if they think they need it. She said, "they need to sleep too" which I guess is fair enough. You'll have to go by how you read her - you'll know her best x

 

[Josie_lg]

Mine let me sign a waiver form because quite a few of the vets are old enough to have been dishing out the strong stuff for a few years before the cat version got its piggy licence. If she's eaten something that's a good sign, even if she's groggy. The ones I've lost after a surgery didn't want to eat anything at all. My vet doesn't typically feed them between 11 and 6 or 7 I think - although there is someone there on duty to do it if they think they need it. She said, "they need to sleep too" which I guess is fair enough. You'll have to go by how you read her - you'll know her best x

Ah okay that makes sense. Thank you

 

[Josie_lg]

Just a little update. She’s done quite well overnight. I was up every few hours syringe feeding her which she took fairly well. She has been taking food from my hand very well too. She’s been pooping on and off and has done a couple wees too. She still seems quite sleepy not wanting to move around very much. She has moved around a couple times but then will sit in her bed.
Her resp rate is still high and she still sounds a bit honky/crackly. I don’t know if she could have a sore throat from the anaesthetic gas? As I know that stuff burns.
We might have to go and get some antibiotics later incase she’s aspirated
I am very worried

 

[weepweeps]

I’m pleased she’s a bit perkier today. You are doing really well.

 

[Free Ranger]

If I was in her shoes I'd be not wanting to move at all - the fact that she has is good, and she's eating too. It's a big op and the pain won't disappear overnight which could explain her high resp rate. It must be such a worrying time - well done supporting her recovery

 

[Wheekallweek]

I'm glad she's feeling a bit better - it's good she's eating!

 

[Josie_lg]

Thank you everyone. I really appreciate your support. We went back to the vets today and they’ve said her chest is a bit crackly. Which I knew already from the noise. They’ve said she may have had a reaction to the anaesthetic which I wouldn’t be suprised about because the gas is very irritant. Or she could have aspirated which is more of a worry to me. So she’s started on antibiotics we’ve got sulfatrim. Along with some probiotic. She’s eaten well today. Still very slow and fluffed up at times. But started giving me some kisses today and starting to give herself a wash. Buttercups given her some kisses too. She’s not pooping that much but she is passing something. I really hope the antibiotics start to help her breathing it’s horrible seeing it. But I’m so proud of how well she’s doing so far. My sister bit into an apple and her little nose went up to she’s starting to smell the foods again. We have a diary where we are writing everything in, including every time she wees/poops and how much syringe food she’s taking, at what time and how much she’s eating on her own. Fingers crossed her breathing gets better soon

 

[Josie_lg]

If I was in her shoes I'd be not wanting to move at all - the fact that she has is good, and she's eating too. It's a big op and the pain won't disappear overnight which could explain her high resp rate. It must be such a worrying time - well done supporting her recovery

The vets said the same thing about her resp rate but it is slightly more efforted. They said her bladder was especially thickened (which isn’t a suprise because the stone was huge) and they took a little biopsy of the bladder so she may be more painful.

 

[Josie_lg]

Just a quick question, I know skin takes about 10-14 days to heal. But how long do you guys reckon until she can use the ramp up to the loft again? They said internal sutures take 8 weeks to dissolve. Once shes back in with them I’ll just remove the ramp and loft for as long as needed but just wondered if anyone knew

 

[Free Ranger]

This I don't know - you might have to check with the vet. It won't be so much the strain of walking up/down a slope, it'll be the risk of a fall, slip or bump.
If you're thinking forward she's presumably picking up a little more?

 

[Josie_lg]

This I don't know - you might have to check with the vet. It won't be so much the strain of walking up/down a slope, it'll be the risk of a fall, slip or bump.
If you're thinking forward she's presumably picking up a little more?

Hiya! Her breathing is better today. She’s slept more today and eaten a bit less but seems more comfortable. She’s barely slept since the surgery so I presume her body needed to catch up on some sleep. And the food I’m offering her is probably getting boring now. She has started doing a little jump at the end of her wee which is what she was doing before the surgery. So I presume that’s just where the anaesthetic drugs are wearing off and she can feel the pain of her inflamed bladder again but I will discuss this with the vet on Tuesday.
It was just more a random thought, as her loft is her favourite place to snuggle down and get away, so I wondered how long that will need to be removed for. Other than that she has been doing okay. We got to hear her little chatter today which was nice

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so pleased she’s doing well.

 

[Josie_lg]

Hiya everyone. Just wanted to pop on here to update and also to ask for some advice. Poppy is doing well. However she is still uncomfortable when peeing and pooping at times how long do I expect this to continue for. Her bladder was very inflamed the vet said but I thought that would have gone down my now. We are waiting for the biopsy results at the moment. But it’s so upsetting that she still gets uncomfortable at times. She is on potassium citrate twice daily. Metacam once daily. Nutracyst once daily. Just finished sulfatrim and is on gabapentin every 8 hours. However the last few days we’ve dropped her to twice a day to try and wean her off. I don’t know if that’s why she’s sore.
Diet wise I wonder if any one can offer more advice. I’m struggling to find a list of veggies that are safe and unsafe for her if anyone can point me in the right direction please do. We know the basics but would like to know more. The vet also told me high PH can just be congenital but I don’t know. Thank you guys.
Ps her wound is looking very good and no blood in her urine. Eating very well

 

[Free Ranger]

I have heard that some pigs are 'just prone' to getting stones. It's hard to say why that would be... I guess if people have an unrelated herd in the same environment and one gets stones but the others don't it would imply that. Some people get stones, some don't - or at least they don't have symptoms. We mainly haven't had problems since using the low Ca bottled water and switching to pellets rather than muesli (in the old old days) but it could just have been that some of my previous pigs were 'prone'. I've not had related ones to be able to compare and they've turned up as adults so they've all had a previous life somewhere.

George - now 6 - got his first stone this summer (in the penis - vet squeezed it out - it was scary big but very smooth and round) and now sadly another in the bladder last month. I put it down to him being an older boy which might mean kidney issues. He went through a phase of wanting to drink lots. Then he developed a UTI which could have upset the balance between drinking and flushing out: either causing it or been picked up because of it. There could be all sorts of things affecting whether a stone forms or not but if it helps at all one of my vets referred to the bladder as a sort of 'crystal garden' like you might do at school. If the urine is too concentrated, for whatever reason, crystals start to form and the risk of a stone shoots up. So they repeat the advice to 'keep everything flushing through...' If she's a good drinker it's reassuring. One of mine only started to drink plenty when I put the bottle right next to the hidey where she slept so she didn't have to emerge at night for a guzzle.

I don't know whether she should be 'squeak-free' by now though. If you're not due any more check-ups post surgery it might still be an idea to send in an e-mail explaining what is happening and asking whether this is to be expected. If she's maintaining her own weight or even regaining any she's lost it's a good sign. If she's losing weight she's still having difficulty - but I can understand if there will be ups and downs with her diet. There's a link here to piggy diets including some special needs ones Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

One thing I would add is to keep an eye on her symptoms now that the sulfatrim has stopped. George was, at one point, sodden wet through underneath and crying on and off when he peed or pooped. His current stone is a big one and in many ways 'the elephant in the room' because you just can't ignore it, but we had to try and see past that to realise the worst of his symptoms was actually a UTI like any pig might get. After he started on antibiotics he dried up and cheered up... and then stopped eating almost anything except a few veggies in the morning. He'll eat grass raided from school but not from the nearby meadow. He's not making it easy to unpick what is happening to him at all! I guess what I'm trying to say is monitor your girl's symptoms carefully and make note of any changes that may happen. I pray that she will continue to improve and get back to a point where you're not worrying x

 

[Piggies&buns]

Do speak to your vet if she is still sore. It may be to be expected at this point but the vet is the only person who can really advise what is happening with her specifically
Yes, some piggies to have a genetic predisposition to stones. Obviously nothing you can do about that and the diet is the only thing you can control - coriander, lettuce, cucumber and pepper is absolutely fine to be fed every day and gives a good balance of nutrients without being high in calcium. The lettuce and cucumber being high in water helps keep the bladder flushed. Making sure pellets are limited (and ideally grain free) and water is filtered is your biggest defence though.

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

Sending poor Poppy healing vibes

It might help, if you're not doing so already, to give her a glucosamine supplement to reline the bladder walls which may still be sore after being scratched by the stone.

There's Feliway Cystease capsules or Oxbow Urinary Support tablets for example. They aren't prescription meds so you can get them online easily.

 

[Josie_lg]

Thank you everyone for your recent messages. I really appreciate the help and advise. She had been doing really well. She is on metacam still and nutracyst and potassium citrate daily. Her bladder biopsy results came back clear. However since weaning her off the gabapentin she has become sore it’s like she isn’t coping well without the gabapentin at all. I’m asking to have a phone consultation to speak to the vet as I’m just so worried. They did say the bladder was exceptionally inflamed so I wonder if she could have been left with scarring or potentially chronic inflammation. As that stone was huge and so sharp. She takes water in a syringe very well too (slowly of course but she really likes it) drinks well from the water bottles and we have her on a very watery diet, the water she drinks is boiled and then filtered too.
So I’m feeling quite defeated that even after all of this she is still sore at times. Breaking my heart