Biscuit and Caramel's strange relationship

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mikulinek

mikulinek

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A few weeks ago, I posted a query about Biscuit and Caramel's behaviour. You were all very helpful, so a big thank you.

As you all said, they entered into their hormonal phase and were bickering a bit but nothing ever got too serious. Until this week, we had maybe two weeks of harmony and both the boys seemed to be very happy with us, each other and the world in general. This week they are back to being grumpy boots but heh, soon they'll grow out of it - hopefully :)

I just thought I'd ask if anyone has seen one particular part of their behaviour before. The past few days, the boys have spent a lot of time chattering at each other and yesterday had to be separated for an hour or so after this escalated to jumping at each other - no blood, biting or anything though. After these "fights" they'll sit next to each other or even look as though they're cleaning each other. In fact, a few minutes ago it looked like they were cleaning each other, then they started trying to "chin" each other and chattering and now they're trying to sniff each other and seem very quiet. I've heard about mood swings but I thought this was a bit extreme. Has anyone else seen these sorts of swings so quickly?

Thanks everyone :)
 
Hi, my boys Bubbles and George are very much like that. Hormones really kicked in for Bubbles and the poor old George couldn't get away fast enoughrolleyes. It did end up in tears and Bubbles bit George and we thought we may have to separate them. We bathed them and even rubbed a teddy on poor old George's wax gland in the hope he would find the teddy more attractive xoxo( good advice from a forum contributer) Don't know if that worked or not but now things are calmer. They will graze peacefully side by side but if anyone's space is invaded it'll be nose to nose confrontation a bit of rumbling and walking off in different directions.pow-pow George prefers to relax alone, and sometimes we have the odd argument about the best hidey holes but on the whole I think it's a case of "can't live with each other, can't live without each other" Hope that helps
 
HELP!

Biscuit and Caramel's ups and downs have finally led to real damage. 8...

The boys have been playing in their usual spot and, as ever, have been intermittently happy and aggresive. We have just noticed that Caramel's nose has been scratched and is bleeding a little (it's not flowing with blood but the scratch is red with blood if you know what I mean). We didn't actually see the incident but Caramel was whining for a little while.

Do we need to separate the boys now?

What's the best way to clean Caramel's scratch?

I can't believe it finally led to this. They were doing so much better. I'm pretty upset for them now :(
 
I know it's upsetting, I had to separate my boar and sow last week, it doesn't get any easier. It's entirely up to you what you do from here.

My sow is different from your boars, but they were lunging and chattering. Although I didn't see it happen Milo also had a wound which I was going to wait a bit longer before separating when they started lunging at one another at that point. I had to make the decision they were not happy.

As much as we like them to get on, it doesn't always happen :(!

As for the wound I personally wouldn't do anything. My boars got into a fight yesterday well I was at work I was so upset to find my boar had fallen into my other boars cage. As for the wounds I never actually did anything I am just watching them. Some people say to bathe it in warm water.

Hugs I know how upsetting it is xx

Ps, you could try bathing them together that sometimes helps calm things down.
 
We are keeping Biscuit in the play area for now and Caramel is back in the cage. He seems ok and is chompping down on a carrot top and some hay.

I would dearly love to hear them call for each other like they did when they were smaller but so far they're quite content to have a little space. I'm wondering whether to let Biscuit spend the night in the play area and see how they feel in the morning.

Any ideas?
 
You could try re-introducing them I have done it once before.

I had my Fred and a young baby, I couldn't leave them in the same cage I was terrified. I did separate them and then reintroduce them the following day on neutral ground I gave them my full bathroom and left them for 24 hours. They lived together for 6 weeks after this and then I had to separate them. :(.

What you could do is bath them together too, that is ment to help them bond.
 
No advice really I am afraid as I am going through the exact same thing myself :-(

My two boys seemed fine, then the past week or so Bumble seemed constantly wary and JoJo was getting more dominant...now we have found a cut on Bumble's lip which we are not sure is ringworm or a bite, but either way it's not good. The past two nights we have watched JoJo steal food from Bumble, despite me having two bowls and spreading all the veg around, and Bumble be reluctant to eat anything for fear of being chased.

Tonight we fed separately on Wiebke's suggestion, removing JoJo and letting Bumble eat. I have never seen such an immediate change - after a few minutes of running around as if to make sure the coast was clear, he ate three bits of celery and a piece of carrot - this is more veg than he has had for the past week. He then ran up to my partner's hand looking for more, was wheeking a little bit, inquisitive about everything, a 'proper piggy' as all my others act.

Upon putting JoJo back in, JoJo has been horrible to Bumble and Bumble has gone back to being withdrawn and cowering in the corner...there was even a rather worrying scuffle which had me yelling at JoJo to leave him alone...tomorrow morning they are being separated. It has been really hard to make this decision as they seemed to get on ok before, but I can't watch Bumble be treated like this in the hope they make it up in a few weeks time, he isn't getting the food and vits he needs and is not happy - the difference is amazing when they are apart.

Whatever you decide, you have a lot of sympathy here x
 
Thanks everyone!

I'm still a little upset and so is my wife (Caramel is "her" piggy while Biscuit is "mine" if you like).

The towels etc. in the play area were due to be changed tomorrow anyway so I think we'll let Biscuit sleep in there tonight and then reintroduce the two of them tomorrow.

Previously Caramel had been the dominant one and Biscuit was not getting the run of the cage but they were eating normally etc. Caramel just didn't want Biscuit inside the hidey or house. I think Biscuit was saying "that's as far as you can push me!" today. Hopefully Caramel will learn from this and we can get them back to something like harmony.

I'm kind of rambling here I know - sorry. Just a bit tired and pretty upset :(

Any way, I'll let you all know what happens
 
Probably not going to get too much sleep tonight so I'll just write a quick update:

We put the two boys back together after separating them for about an hour or so. For about an hour after that there was quite a lot of posturing, chin-raising and rumbling/war dancing but nothing more. Eventually they starting to settle down and were eating a little more normally.

Biscuit finally fell asleep inside their little fluffy tube and, unusually, Caramel didn't disturb him. Caramel had a little walk around the cage for a bit, had a bit of hay and eventually fell asleep right outside the fluffy tube, pretty close to Biscuit (aren't piggies the cutest sleeping animals you've EVER seen by the way?).

It's all quiet at the moment. We've got a towel in position and an "evacuation plan", but for now, they seem perfectly content to sleep together so we're letting stay the night together.

On a positive note - I'm really pleased with their new vetbed bedding so far.

Nigt allx>>
 
awww goodnight, and i hope its peaceful.
zzz


The bathing thing worked for my two boars, but i had to do it every few months! They ended up being seperated for about 6 months then got back together, until sadly i had to split them when they both became ill :(
 
Well I spoke too soon because, at some point this morning, Caramel scratched Biscuit on the nose too. Now they both have little cut on their nose.

Biscuit has now been evacuated to the play pen where he is mucnhing away on some hay while my wife cuddles Caramel. Caramel will stay in the cage today and we will reintroduce them this evening in the kitchen - fingers crossed they miss each other from now until then...
 
Sorry to hear that your boars are fighting. I don't know what to suggest as my pigs are not harmonious either. I just wanted to offer some sympathy. It is so hard to watch our piggies that we love so much being mean to each other. I spend ages watching mine to see what is causing conflit between them and try to 'fix' it by adding extra cosies or bowls or moving something etc (I am sure that you do too). It is so hard feeling helpless as they don't seem to understand how much happier they would be if they were just nicer to each other. 8...
 
It seems Bumble and JoJo with Doeylicious have set the trend for our little Biscuit and Caramel.

They have spent the day apart - Biscuit in the play area and Caramel in the cage - and were put together for about an hour in the kitchen where they were a little uneasy, shall we say, with other but no fights broke out. Every few minutes or so they seem relatively happy with each other for a little bit and then back to being edgy.

For the first time tonight they will sleep apart. Biscuit has now gone into the cage where he popcorned a little, ate a bit and has now fallen asleep. Caramel seems pretty happy about being in the play pen so we'll see how they feel in the morning.
 
Hi, after I posted a reply on saturday we had to take Bubbles to have his abcess looked at, all evidence pointed to a bite and poor old Bubbles had to have a big clean up. When we got him home he did look in a bit of a sorry state so we thought perhaps we'd better keep them apart. We did this by splitting the hutch in two with a wire baking rack so that they could still see and smell each other. In the morning we swapped them round so their scent was in both parts and by the afternoon we moved the run to some lovely long grass and put them back together. They fed happily together and seem ok now, a little hesitant with a bit of nose to nose and rumbling but all in all not too bad. Oh and my point was ( i'm such a waffler) if they can still see and smell each other it will definately help. Hope this helps. We have had so much wonderful advice from this forum and our boys would 've been permanently separated by now if I hadn't joinedx>>
 
Hi everyone,

Thank you all for your great advice and very supportive PMs.

I thought I'd share some very happy news with you all today. Your advice and support has paid off. After a long day of cleaning, bathing, shampooing, cage cleaning, drying, hairdrying and generally intensive piggy care, we successfully reintroduced our squabbling boys.

They are now more or less contentedly sitting in their freshly cleaned cage, although in separate halves for the time being. We did have some histrionics while Caramel and Biscuit worked out who should eat from which feeder and have which fluffy tube etc. but this soon died out. WE are once again hopeful that when the boys finally grow out of their adolescent hormones, we may have two happy piggies again :)

Thank you all again :) x>>
 
Fingers firmly crossed, but I an glad that you have managed to get them back together!
 
Aw what fab news I come back from my holiday to :-D

Really pleased the boys are getting on ok now :-) I got your PM and will reply in a sec!
 
It's been about a week or so since I gave an update of our boars' rollercoaster relationship.

Things have been pretty positive recently. We have started to let the boys out into a larger space in the flat with a view to total freedom within the next month or so. They seemed to have benefitted from the space and variety. They've got their own little blanket each under the table in the dining area/kitchen space and can get in and out of the cage at will. They mastered entering and exiting the cage very quickly, ignoring the little ramp we'd made and just climbing in and out!

Today they had their first fight in a week or so. It didn't look too bad but Caramel ended up with a mouthful of Biscuit's hair in his teeth. I quickly exctracted Biscuit and checked him out. No cuts or injuries but he was a little shaken. I put Biscuit in the play area with some fresh hay and gave him a cuddle. I put Caramel back in the cage, took all his toys and treats away and closed him in there with just hay and water.

After about ten minutes, no more, Caramel was clearly upset so I gave the cage a quick spot clean. put the toys and treats back and brought Biscuit back home too. So far it's been quiet. It's not that I want to punish Caramel, after all this is normal behaviour I suppose, but I just wanted to let him know that he can't bite Biscuit.

I have to say, I would be the softest parent in the world. After a puppy-pig look from Caramel I felt sorry for the little guy and guilty for locking him up for ten minutes... I'm pathetic really! :)
 
I don't think that taking away his toys will work anyway - he will not understand what he is being punished for.

I am sorry that things are still dodgy and will probably stay so for a little while yet until they are out of the worst.
 
My wife and I were cuddling with our piggies yesterday when we notice both of them seem to have small patches with no hair (3 each) which are clearly the result of scratching or biting. The scab which Caramel had looked very small and although Biscuit skin looked a little sore, it wasn't really cut so much as grazed.:(

Could they have done this to themselves (scratching themselves/grooming etc) or is it definitiely from fighting do you think? How serious would you class this as?

Thanks :)
 
They may have done it to themselves BUT if they are scratching themselves this much, look out for mites!

Are their claws quite sharp and pointy? I forget how old your lads are but I am sure it's under a year in which case the claws probably won't need trimming but if sharp may need filing the tips off, just to stop them accidently scratching themselves (and you - I have an inch long cut where Dodge and I had a disagreement about grease gland cleaning and he scratched me quite badly, first ever time a guinea has made me bleed and it's actually slightly scarred!)
 
I might just do that thanks :)

They're off to the vet's tomorrow because Biscuit is sounding chesty again (he's started hooting over the last few days...). Filing their little claws sounds like a good idea - I'm always scratched at the moment (mostly from Biscuit running up and down my arm). He hasn't drawn blood though - that sounds painful! Although, the other day I had to go to the shop and didn't think to put anything with long sleeves on. Half way round I noticed a couple of people looking at me funny. I looked down and my right arm looked like a scratch board! mallethead
 
Oh dear you do seem to be going through it! Hope all was well at the vet? Had to separate my boys again last night, Bubbles got very frisky after his bath and wouldn't leave George alone{:|, we had to put the wire rack between them, Ok again this morning though:)
 
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