Best Way To Get Females To Stop Fighting?

[Blue]

So, I have two pairs of girls that I would really like to live together in one big group, but when I tried to introduce them to each other yesterday, Jack, the oldest out of all four of them, just would not leave the other two alone.

I had them in a very large(I don't have exact dimensions but it was about half the basement) neutral area with nothing in it except hay and veggies in the middle. Everything was okay while they were eating the veggies, just a bit of pushing but nothing major. But when the veggies were gone, things got heated very fast. There was just a lot of teeth chattering and yawning at first, and eventually Jack started lunging at them.

I was hoping they would work things out, there were a few times when each pair went and laid down on opposite sides of the area, but when somebody would get up to check out the hay everything started again.

I feel like maybe I might've done something wrong in the process, they were separated for a bit while I set up a few things for cleaning the cages so I wouldn't be walking through the area too much while they were doing their thing. Was this enough time for them to claim the spot as "theirs"?

I've poked around on here a bit and heard good things about introducing a neutered boar. If I were to do this option should I "date" all of the pigs or just the choosy, more dominant ones? Bo, the youngest is definitely the most submissive and I don't think she would have a problem with anyone, but you never know, she's still an impressionable baby and has started taking after Jack with a few things
And I've also heard that maybe spaying one of them could help?
Do any of these ideas actually have any traction or should I just face up to the fact that they will never get along?
Thanks so much!

 

[Wiebke]

So, I have two pairs of girls that I would really like to live together in one big group, but when I tried to introduce them to each other yesterday, Jack, the oldest out of all four of them, just would not leave the other two alone.

I had them in a very large(I don't have exact dimensions but it was about half the basement) neutral area with nothing in it except hay and veggies in the middle. Everything was okay while they were eating the veggies, just a bit of pushing but nothing major. But when the veggies were gone, things got heated very fast. There was just a lot of teeth chattering and yawning at first, and eventually Jack started lunging at them.

I was hoping they would work things out, there were a few times when each pair went and laid down on opposite sides of the area, but when somebody would get up to check out the hay everything started again.

I feel like maybe I might've done something wrong in the process, they were separated for a bit while I set up a few things for cleaning the cages so I wouldn't be walking through the area too much while they were doing their thing. Was this enough time for them to claim the spot as "theirs"?

I've poked around on here a bit and heard good things about introducing a neutered boar. If I were to do this option should I "date" all of the pigs or just the choosy, more dominant ones? Bo, the youngest is definitely the most submissive and I don't think she would have a problem with anyone, but you never know, she's still an impressionable baby and has started taking after Jack with a few things
And I've also heard that maybe spaying one of them could help?
Do any of these ideas actually have any traction or should I just face up to the fact that they will never get along?
Thanks so much!

Hi and welcome!

Please be aware that not all sows get along with each other. Some sows can overreact when being faced with other piggies. It all depends on whether things settle down over time or not.

Please take the time to read through these guides here and see whether you are dealing with a fight for dominance or with somewhat fear-aggressive behaviour which is hopefully going to be less with every passing day.
Make sure that you don't put any hideys into the bonding area and that you do not move all piggies to a cage before things feel somewhat settled. When you place hideys in, only use ones that have two exits until the dominance phase is over.
Illustrated Bonding / Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
Sow Behaviour

A neutered boar cannot mend a dysfunctional group, as he is not a member of the sow hierarchy, just of the overall group. He is great with a group of sows (provided they accept him in the first place), but he cannot mend an underlying conflict between other piggies.

Here is a list of recommended US guinea pig rescues. Not all will necessarily have neutered boars: Guinea Lynx :: US Guinea Pig Rescue and Shelter Organizations

 

[Blue]

Also, some really shaky pictures, because they're cute but can't stop moving long enough to get a good photo lol
the first one is Jack and Bo, Bo is the long haired one, and the second is Velma and Ren, the black one is Ren.

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Spaying is quite a big operation from what I understand, only really to be considered for illness. I doubt it would actually help your situation.

I bonded 2 girls with 2 girls and had similar problems to you, it is very hard on you emotionally I know lol.

How long were they together? I found that plenty of distractions helped matters, a few hay areas, nugget bowls, veg, dried food (plantain was hugely popular) and treats. I found that it became quite intense if they got bored.

Was blood drawn or any injury sustained? Or was it just bum nipping and facing off?

 

[Blue]

Spaying is quite a big operation from what I understand, only really to be considered for illness. I doubt it would actually help your situation.

I bonded 2 girls with 2 girls and had similar problems to you, it is very hard on you emotionally I know lol.

How long were they together? I found that plenty of distractions helped matters, a few hay areas, nugget bowls, veg, dried food (plantain was hugely popular) and treats. I found that it became quite intense if they got bored.

Was blood drawn or any injury sustained? Or was it just bum nipping and facing off?

No, blood from what I can see, which is very good. Yeah, it was mostly just facing off, and a bit of lunging. They were in the area together for about three hours I think. Was that too short?
Would it be a bad idea if I tried again with more food and time? They did seem to be okay while there was a distraction.

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

The first meet between my 4 sounds very much like yours, it was emotionally draining to watch your beloved babies behave that way towards each other.

Did you notice any hierarchy forming? Luckily with mine the top piggy was established very quickly, it was 2nd, 3rd and 4th place that took a bit longer.

As long as no one was injured you could try again. Sometimes the lunging looks worse than it is. Just have a towel ready just in case they do decide to fight.

I did an open space with 4 water bottles, hay, veg, pellet bowls and treats scattered about. Then after a few hours if they still seemed okay I put in a cardboard box (or two) with 4 exits in it (fairly big box with no bottom) to see how they reacted, whether they shared it.

It took a few bonding sessions to get there, maybe 5-6 hours or when tensions rose a tad too high so I'd try again the next day. Now they have a clear hierarchy and rarely ever face off with each other, it's usually just one of my pigs that does that anyway lol.

Hope this helps

 

[Blue]

The first meet between my 4 sounds very much like yours, it was emotionally draining to watch your beloved babies behave that way towards each other.

Did you notice any hierarchy forming? Luckily with mine the top piggy was established very quickly, it was 2nd, 3rd and 4th place that took a bit longer.

As long as no one was injured you could try again. Sometimes the lunging looks worse than it is. Just have a towel ready just in case they do decide to fight.

I did an open space with 4 water bottles, hay, veg, pellet bowls and treats scattered about. Then after a few hours if they still seemed okay I put in a cardboard box (or two) with 4 exits in it (fairly big box with no bottom) to see how they reacted, whether they shared it.

It took a few bonding sessions to get there, maybe 5-6 hours or when tensions rose a tad too high so I'd try again the next day. Now they have a clear hierarchy and rarely ever face off with each other, it's usually just one of my pigs that does that anyway lol.

Hope this helps

Yes, thank you so much, it does help and gives me renewed hope for my girls. Thanks so much!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Anytime! Glad to help. I feel your pain with it all lol. Would love to hear updates on how it's going and see pigtures of your cuties when you fancy it!

 

[Blue]

Anytime! Glad to help. I feel your pain with it all lol. Would love to hear updates on how it's going and see pigtures of your cuties when you fancy it!

Yes of course, will do!

 

[JenniferG]

Giving them a bath together always helps with my sows...piggies that bath together, stay together!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Giving them a bath together always helps with my sows...piggies that bath together, stay together!

Does that actually work? I've read mixed reviews on that, some say it's a myth?

But bathing 4 piggies at the same time... I wouldn't be brave enough

 

[JenniferG]

Well it has always worked for me. I used to have 6 in the bath at once and they'd huddle together in their shared bathing horror experience.

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Well it has always worked for me. I used to have 6 in the bath at once and they'd huddle together in their shared bathing horror experience.

Wow you're braver than I am Luckily I've only had to bath 2 piggies and only twice, for hay lice. Not sure any of us enjoyed the experience

 

[JenniferG]

There you go...easy!

 

[Blue]

There you go...easy!

View attachment 57127

omg, my girls are so squirmy I'm not sure it would work, but I might just try it anyways..

 

[Lady Kelly]

Does that actually work? I've read mixed reviews on that, some say it's a myth?

But bathing 4 piggies at the same time... I wouldn't be brave enough

It's about the scent. They all smell the same so there's less friction. I've done it with 4 but my bathing them one at a time and then putting them on neutral ground

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

It's about the scent. They all smell the same so there's less friction. I've done it with 4 but my bathing them one at a time and then putting them on neutral ground

Yea I know it's for scent, but I thought it just stressed them out. I try not to bath mine if I don't have to. I don't think my girls were bothered by scent, they just had to sort out the hierarchy and then they were fine

 

[Lady Kelly]

Yea I know it's for scent, but I thought it just stressed them out. I try not to bath mine if I don't have to. I don't think my girls were bothered by scent, they just had to sort out the hierarchy and then they were fine

Some pigs like water a lot less than others and none of mine are keen. I've only washed them for bonding the once and that was after bumble passed away as I wanted to bond Isobel back with the others but Jemima had taken a chunk out of her lip the last time. I basically did everything I could to make it work and it did phew!

 

[Blue]

So, update: I tried re-introductions again, and everything was successful! There was A LOT less hissing and lunging this time around.

So, details.. basically, it was just as Cavy Kung-Fu said, once Jack had asserted her dominance and everyone was accepting of her as Top Pig, it was down to Ren and Velma to figure out the #2 and #3 spots. Which went relatively smoothly, as those two are less prone to fighting. Bo was very obviously the most submissive from the very start. And the addition of more food helped, I think, too. I had about 4 or 5 different hay/food spots that i refilled with lettuce until they were tired of it

Everything got a good wipe down with vinegar water before I let them in, and they were in that area all day while I cleaned and behaved themselves very well for the most part

They are now back in my room hanging out in their new abode, and I'm going to leave the cage open (my room is very much pig proofed as I use it for floor time too. I'm a very light sleeper and will be able to hear if there is a problem) for the night just to make sure there is enough room for everyone to get acclimated. And I think I'm going to keep the "Tunnels Only" rule for a few days just to make very sure nobody gets cornered, as Ren, who I think has taken the second-in-command position, has taken to (gently) harassing everyone below her

And now, pictures!

Velma relaxing

Jack wants to give you a kiss!

checking out their new cage

and a full picture of their new set up!

Thanks everyone for all your help and advice! I am one very happy pig papa as you can imagine!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Great news! Lovely pics too My 2nd in command is a problem child too

 

[flowerfairy]

Awww how lovely to have them free ranging in your bedroom. Out of interest why are there grids on the floor?

 

[Blue]

Awww how lovely to have them free ranging in your bedroom. Out of interest why are there grids on the floor?

That's just how I let them in and out of their cage, I leave a couple of grids open so they can come and go as they please. They're not 100% free ranging just when I'm home and can watch them. They stay in their cage while I'm at work

 

[Becs]

Hi, Hoping someone might be able to give me some advice please ... I have a similar problem with two female guinea pigs who we have had now for 6 weeks. They are rescue guineas, who were bonded at the animal rescue centre, but it has become clear over the last few weeks one is bullying the other. They are currently separated. I have tried introducing them again but they immediately fell into stressed guinea and dominate guinea!

I have spoken to the rescue centre and they have a neutered boar and are suggesting I could swap them over.

Problem is they each belong to one of my twin daughters - neither of whom want their pet taken away!

Is their anything I can do to stop this behaviour so that they might get along. Long term it just can't be fair for them to be living in parallel sections with limited interaction ....

 

[Blue]

Hi, Hoping someone might be able to give me some advice please ... I have a similar problem with two female guinea pigs who we have had now for 6 weeks. They are rescue guineas, who were bonded at the animal rescue centre, but it has become clear over the last few weeks one is bullying the other. They are currently separated. I have tried introducing them again but they immediately fell into stressed guinea and dominate guinea!

I have spoken to the rescue centre and they have a neutered boar and are suggesting I could swap them over.

Problem is they each belong to one of my twin daughters - neither of whom want their pet taken away!

Is their anything I can do to stop this behaviour so that they might get along. Long term it just can't be fair for them to be living in parallel sections with limited interaction ....

Well, unless they are out right fighting, with injuries and blood, or one is blocking the other from food, it might just be some basic dominant behavior. And that isn't bad! That's just how piggies interact with each other. Not enough space is usually the reason for bickering, is your cage big enough? This website has some dimensions that is recommended for minimum and preferred. But I would always, if you can, have a bigger cage than recommended. More space is only a good thing!

So for you, with two guinea pigs, the MINIMUM size is 27x41in (68.5x104cm). But the recommended is a little bit bigger than that, which is definitely what I would recommend, if not, even bigger.

With the big cage, you could also try having more than one place for food. That means two food dishes, two water bottles, two places for hay, etc.

That's the most I can recommend without knowing more details, and I'm sorry if you've heard this advice already!

 

[Becs]

Hey Blue,

Thanks for reply. Really helpful. I have tried two of everything for food but wondering about what you've said re the cage size. Mine is very slightly bigger than those dimensions and they have bits and pieces in there. Also, wondering about taking some things out for a bit? Tunnel / chew stick ?

There's no blood or injuries but there is clearly constant dominance. I have taken one to the vets a few times because of hair-loss and the vet is now convinced it is either hair-loss due to stress and/or 'barbering'. It is the vet who said to separate them while looking at options.

How do I go about re-introducing them? And should I? (sigh)

 

[Blue]

Hey Blue,

Thanks for reply. Really helpful. I have tried two of everything for food but wondering about what you've said re the cage size. Mine is very slightly bigger than those dimensions and they have bits and pieces in there. Also, wondering about taking some things out for a bit? Tunnel / chew stick ?

There's no blood or injuries but there is clearly constant dominance. I have taken one to the vets a few times because of hair-loss and the vet is now convinced it is either hair-loss due to stress and/or 'barbering'. It is the vet who said to separate them while looking at options.

How do I go about re-introducing them? And should I? (sigh)

Ooooh, yeah the barbering is an issue.
I don't personally have any experience with barbering but this post might help?
If you do decide to reintroduce them, you must do it on neutral ground, where neither piggy has been before or doesn't go often. No hideys, don't interfere unless there is fighting with bloodshed, clean out their cage and everything in them thoroughly. I recommend using a vinegar water mix, to get rid of any residual piggy smell. And I recommend lots and lots of food be available for them during the time of reintroduction.

If nothing works and the barbering doesn't stop, they can be separated but still benefit from seeing and hearing and smelling each other!
Good luck, I hope this helps!

 

[Becs]

Thanks! That helps loads - I will give it a go