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Best probiotic?

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PiggiePal

PiggiePal

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As it says in the title really - stocking up my medicine cabinet, just wondered what to get :))
 
You know something? I don't silly but I recently had a long chat with my vet about pro-biotics.

Both Sarah (my vet) and Aiden (the exotics specialist) said that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that pro-biotics give any benefits to guinea pigs. Whilst they don't do any harm, there are no proven medical or clinical benefits to giving pro-biotics to cavies. I don't know if any of you have had similar chats with your vets but it might be an idea. In fact, Sarah said that they're a waste of money.

You know, I'm not sure what to believe now but I just think it would be silly if they're right and we'e spending loads of money on pro-biotics that don;t do anything... :{
 
mikulinek said:
You know something? I don't silly but I recently had a long chat with my vet about pro-biotics.

Both Sarah (my vet) and Aiden (the exotics specialist) said that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that pro-biotics give any benefits to guinea pigs. Whilst they don't do any harm, there are no proven medical or clinical benefits to giving pro-biotics to cavies. I don't know if any of you have had similar chats with your vets but it might be an idea. In fact, Sarah said that they're a waste of money.

You know, I'm not sure what to believe now but I just think it would be silly if they're right and we'e spending loads of money on pro-biotics that don;t do anything... :{
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oh my god...spanner in the works lol! :))
 
I used Bio-lapis: amazing - when our boar stopped eating while on Baytril Bio-lapis returned his stomach to normal, so there must be a connection, we experienced this a couple of times - he just won't eat without Bio-lapis when he's on medication.
 
mikulinek said:
I know - has anyone else been told anything similar by their vet?
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All our vets told us it's good for pigs. Plus, our boar drinks only from the bottle that's got Pro-C in it: we tried swapping places, bottles and locations to cheat him, but he finds Pro-C water and prefers it to plain one no doubt. It must not only be good for him, but also tasty :)
 
I have found that adding probiotics has definitely stimulated the appetite in piggies that were struggling beforehand.
 
Every vet I know suggests using a probiotic if a pig is on antibiotics. Seems common sense, really, given how sensitive they are to antibiotics.
 
I've also been told that probiotics don't make any difference by a vet I went to once. However I know better because of the proven effects it has on guinea pigs prescribed baytril on this forum.

I think it's something disputed in the vetinary profession, to be honest I trust the experiences people have had on here more than a vet who doesn't really know about guineas (he didn't have a clue!).

Thanks everyone for your replies :))
 
mikulinek said:
You know something? I don't silly but I recently had a long chat with my vet about pro-biotics.

Both Sarah (my vet) and Aiden (the exotics specialist) said that there is no scientific evidence to suggest that pro-biotics give any benefits to guinea pigs. Whilst they don't do any harm, there are no proven medical or clinical benefits to giving pro-biotics to cavies. I don't know if any of you have had similar chats with your vets but it might be an idea. In fact, Sarah said that they're a waste of money.

You know, I'm not sure what to believe now but I just think it would be silly if they're right and we'e spending loads of money on pro-biotics that don;t do anything... :{
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Hi mikulinek

I'm so glad you brought this subject up....as I have been thinking about posting on this very subject recently.

My specialist exotics vet says the same as your vets...ie administering probiotics because antibiotics are given is not clincially proven to have any benefit in piggies and is a waste of money.....and in my experience I tend to agree.

These days I don;t buy any piggie probiotics especially....(and my vet tends to prescribe septrin instead of baytril as an antibiotic)

Notwithstanding the choice of antibiotic........I have thought long and hard about this (firstly as a research microbiologist and secondly as a long term piggie owner who has had rather a lot of piggie problems these last 2 years)...... so for the benefit of the forum ......here's my reasoning:

Firstly we need to go back to "first piggie principles" on this ......

Piggie are herbivores and need to eat continuously...they need to keep their guts moving with food. If a piggie is ill/in pain/has dental problems.... for whatever reason it will not eat as much (if at all) and therefore we need to be aware that consequential gut motility problems are "a given", [*]regardless of whether an antibiotic is subsequently prescribed. [/*]

Piggies don;t tend to get taken to the vet until they show signs of full-blown illness (because as we all know they are prey animals and are clever at hiding any problems)....so by the time they get the (only piggie-licensed med) baytril from the vets...the reduced eating and gut mobility problems are already in progress....and will normally manifest themselves within the next 72+ hours.

My take on this is therefore is that baytril actually is NOT the cause of many tummy/gut mobility problems...but rather the lack of eating/illness IS... However, because the piggy is ill and baytril (as the only licensed med for guineas) is normally prescribed for whatever illness .....it then tends to be blamed for any further symptoms that develop. Also we need to be aware that the "give probiotics" advice has developed because of the marketing of certain well-known products for us humans etc etc (NB Advertising Standards Agency have recently "over-ruled" on certain statements in certain ads concerning the alleged benefits of human probiotics) . And human digestion is NOT the same as piggies....for a start we eat meat and we DO NOT have a large caecum......(oops...and we don;t, as far as I m aware, eat caecetrophs :(|))

HOWEVER that doen;t mean we should just give antibiotics to our piggies and not worry. The gut motility problems will have started BEFORE the antibiotics have been prescribed and therefore this needs to be addressed with the right meds PRONTO....

So if a piggie isn;t eating, and/or is on antibiotics, and/or has motility problems, I adhere to my vets advice to give zantac and critical care daily....and also occasional syringes of water.....


The only times I WILL consciously administer a probiotic is when a piggie has squishy poos.......I use fibreplex....as it has fibre as well as probioitics....... and is great for firming out squishy poo problems (providing you can resist gving them any greens for a few days despite all their entreatied squeekings and wheekings )...BUT I would also always give zantac as well to assist the gut mobility (quick telephone conflab with my vet to get their agreement for me to administer this usually suffices to cover me under the Animal Welfare and Vet Surgeons Acts)

Hope this makes sense....I think it would be useful to gather other piggie owners experiences on this.........and possibly make a stickie alerting piggieowners to the fact that ANY ill piggie is not a happy piggie and probably [*]has already got gut motility probs[/*] which need "the right stuff" in combination with any other meds the vet prescribes to sort it.

I am happy to volunteer to collate info and do some proper research to either back up this up or otherwise..

x
 
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Qualifiction

oops...actually I think I need to qualify my past post.

Don;t get me wrong......I am a huge believer in the fact that antibiotics can reduce normal protective microbial flora and create opportunities for "opportunistic" pathogens (eg thrush)

and when I think this is the case with a piggie I will have no hesitation in recommending certain probiotics.....


The previous post however is aimed more at my concerns about the number of posts where vets seem happy to prescribe antibiotics (and even probiotics)...but do not seem to be aware of the possible gut motility problems that [*]are already in progress.[/*]..so therefore do not advise the owners on critical care and gut motility drugs etc etc

.(so call me yet another case of a cavy owner wanting to empower other piggie owners to be able to educate their inexperienced vets :x:x)....

x
 
PiggiePal said:
Actually i'm still a little confused as to what to use...@)
Click to expand...

Can completely understand your concerns. Here's my take on it fter several years of "angst":

First of all - don;t use acidophilus, nat yoghurt, or anything else recommended for humans...(as i said before we don;t have caecums/aren't herbivores/and don;t eat our own poos ;)

The microbial flora in a piggie gut is way way different to ours.

My opinioin is that your best options are as follows:

Biolapis (mixed with Supreme recovery or Oxbow critical care)
Avipro (ditto)
Other herbivore probioitic eg Vetark (ditto above - important to get fibre/fluid included with the pro-bio-preparation to enhance gut motility)
Piggie poo soup (ditto above)
Fibreplex (1ml max daily pref split into two helpings - on its own as has fibre/foodstuff incorporated)

HTH
x


PS If its me...I go for fibreplex every time because of the added fibre and therefore benefits......also it;s easy to administer....

The probiotic in fibreplex is a yeast saccharomyces ....better for herbivores UNLESS...... they are already experiencing a fungal infection........

x
 
You see this is why it's so confusing. You've got someone like Wiebke, who's advice and experience I would trust beyond question, saying she's SEEN the benefits of probiotics in piggies - especially for ones that aren't eating.

Then you've got someone qualified and knowledgeable like Pebble who can point out the reasons why probiotics aren't the panaecea we might think - it's so confusing for those of us who are new to piggies (we've had our two for just over sox months...).

One of our boars is almsot constantly ill and the secondary effect, as you say Pebble, is gut problems (and teeth problems of course - a pig who isn't eating will get dental issues I'm sure). So you want to know what's best for the little guy and you get really conflicting information. mallethead
 
I can only comment from an owners point of view but I truly believe probiotics have benefitted my Ben on more than one occassion.
Long story short - Bill and Ben fighting, Ben neutered (on rubbish advice from vet!), Ben developed abcess, antibiotics, dying piggy. Careful hand feeding and Bio Lapis combined to bring him back from the brink. 3 months later same story again - Ben not eating, REALLY ill, losing weight and the will to live. Bio Lapis again to the rescue.
Since then, Ben is very prone to digestive problems when eaten too much veg or grass or etc etc. Bio Lapis and dry food do the trick every time. I wouldn't be without it in my house but would only use when necessary, not all the time. And I would ALWAYS use when antibiotics are being given too.
 
putting on weight

i can't remember the name...8:) but you can buy something that can help piggies put on more weight.. (i have had the piggy checked at the vets) but she could do with abit more weight put on her thats all.

Esther x
 
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