Bereavement and getting new piggies- Please help me stop overthinking...

[WDSgpigs]

Hello,

Please forgive me for what is likely to be quite a rambling post, but I would just like to share some of my feelings to help me get out of my own head and get advice too.

Between Jan and December this year I lost 3 guinea pigs:

- Post spay surgery complications (died at home while I went to the shop)
- Untreatable bladder stones (had to be PTS at vets after two weeks of meds/battling)
- Post abscess removal complications (went into shock overnight while I was asleep, rushed to vets first thing when I awoke but had to be PTS)

The whole experience was pretty traumatising, especially due to how I ended up finding my Guinea pigs- passed away/in a fit like state and felt awful because it had happened while I was out or asleep just a day or so after their surgeries.

(If anyone has experienced similar please do reach out, I find talking and sharing helps to deal with it so if you do too then it'd be good to talk xx)

I still have 3 guinea pigs (one boar 2 sows) who are touchwood happy and healthy currently, living in a 2x6 with a 2x2 loft. They all get on fine.

6 months on from all the trauma and I'm starting to see piggies in rescues and feel the temptation to want to adopt some more piggies. Currently my partner and I have seen a group of 3 pigs who are all gorgeous... However after some initial feelings of excitement the worry starts to set in ..

- Bonding: what if they bite eachother and cause abscesses and then I lose them again? It would be all my fault for introducing new piggies!

-What if I lose some close together again, will I actually have more resilience because of what I've been through or will I just be set even further back and not be able to get more piggies again...

-Should I really have 6 or just stick with a smaller group (is 2x6 with 2x2 loft good enough/big enough), will it encourage more activity or just increase chance of piggies getting on eachothers way leading to more abcesses or chances they will catch things off eachother if one gets Ill ever..?

Trying to sift through what in my brain is just the trauma talking and what is actually of genuine concern is a bit difficult... Any help/advice/comments would be appreciated!

Thank you for reading!

 

[piggl]

I am sorry to hear of all your losses, and I can definitely understand your apprehension on the subject.
Is it a group of three girls you were looking at?

As for the worry of biting each other and causing death, I really think that is your anxiety/past experience taking over. I am not saying it is impossible that this could happen, but these catastrophizing thoughts will not help anything and certainly not change the outcome. It is totally valid that you are having some bad thoughts based on everything you have been through with your piggies, but it is not a helpful thought so therefore I would just chuck it out your mind (easier said than done )

I would think for a group of 6 you would be needing more space, the recommended size for 4 is 2x5. Also bearing in mind the loft area does not count towards the cage size as piggies are not climbers.
I wonder, would you be up for making a second cage and having two separate groups?

I will attach some of the forums guides related to your questions -
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Cage Size Guide
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

 

[Piggies&buns]

The cage size needed for 3 piggies is a 2x5
For four piggies is a 2x6
If you want to bond six piggies together then the cage needs to be a 2x8

 

[Wiebke]

Hello

Please forgive me for what is likely to be quite a rambling post, but I would just like to share some of my feelings to help me get out of my own head and get advice too.

Between Jan and December this year I lost 3 guinea pigs:

- Post spay surgery complications (died at home while I went to the shop)
- Untreatable bladder stones (had to be PTS at vets after two weeks of meds/battling)
- Post abscess removal complications (went into shock overnight while I was asleep, rushed to vets first thing when I awoke but had to be PTS)

The whole experience was pretty traumatising, especially due to how I ended up finding my Guinea pigs- passed away/in a fit like state and felt awful because it had happened while I was out or asleep just a day or so after their surgeries.

(If anyone has experienced similar please do reach out, I find talking and sharing helps to deal with it so if you do too then it'd be good to talk xx)

I still have 3 guinea pigs (one boar 2 sows) who are touchwood happy and healthy currently, living in a 2x6 with a 2x2 loft. They all get on fine.

6 months on from all the trauma and I'm starting to see piggies in rescues and feel the temptation to want to adopt some more piggies. Currently my partner and I have seen a group of 3 pigs who are all gorgeous... However after some initial feelings of excitement the worry starts to set in ..

- Bonding: what if they bite eachother and cause abscesses and then I lose them again? It would be all my fault for introducing new piggies!

-What if I lose some close together again, will I actually have more resilience because of what I've been through or will I just be set even further back and not be able to get more piggies again...

-Should I really have 6 or just stick with a smaller group (is 2x6 with 2x2 loft good enough/big enough), will it encourage more activity or just increase chance of piggies getting on eachothers way leading to more abcesses or chances they will catch things off eachother if one gets Ill ever..?

Trying to sift through what in my brain is just the trauma talking and what is actually of genuine concern is a bit difficult... Any help/advice/comments would be appreciated!

Thank you for reading!

Hi and welcome

HUGS

I am very sorry for your traumatic experience. It does really whack you when you can't brace for it and will take you some time to get over a multipack loss in quick succession. You can only process so much at any given time before you end up with what I call grieving indigestion when you have too more on your plate than you can deal with at any time. Eventually you will get through it although you may experience the occasional hiccup when a not properly digested bit of grieving is coming up again for whatever reason.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

My worst series was three unrelated deaths in just a week in august 2021, only one of which - the third one - I was braced for. Those deaths did actually come hard on the heels of a fourth. I also lost two piggies unexpectedly on consecutive days just before the last Christmas. Coincidental stampedes to the Rainbow Bridge happen more often than we think. It's not your fault; just cosmic bad luck. Try to think of them all together at the Bridge and mourn them together as a group. That can help a little.

In order to hopefully lay some of the ghosts of the dying process to rest, you may find the relevant chapter about multiple organ failure helpful in putting some of your observations into a bit more of a perspective. Once the body starts closing down it is unfortunately a one-way road.
The dying natural process is a lot more physical than most owners expect and can really majorly throw you. Peacefully drifting away in one's sleep is actually the exception and pretty rare.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

It is great that you want to adopt. Why don't contact all rescues within your reach and ask for already bonded pairs or groups of sows or a sow pair which could be bonded with at the rescue with a neutered boar of theirs (if they have them)? This should neatly settle your bonding concerns.
Bonded sow trios or quartets turn up in rescue occasionally but often struggle to find a home together, as do many adult boar pairs who are past the big teenage hormones. If you can afford to wait for the right combo to come along, then it is worth waiting. Summer holiday dumping season is not far away. Rescues also often have piggies in quarantine/on recovery or pregnancy watch that are not yet ready for adoption.

I have adopted wholesale a dumped little mixed gender piggy family (dad was neutered at the rescue) all the way from Cornwall last October; they have helped me cope when I lost pace with my own grieving process due to overload. Three of the resulting babies (two now neutered boys and the only girl) have also stayed on although they are not living with the core group of a mother, son and his sister (both sows were pregnant from the boar). The new lives have helped me to cope with the 7 further losses (mostly age related) I have incurred since their arrival.

As you are finding out, ultimately the joy that piggies bring us outweighs the pain of their loss.

Here is some practical information, which you may find helpful:
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs
Guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

 

[WDSgpigs]

I am sorry to hear of all your losses, and I can definitely understand your apprehension on the subject.
Is it a group of three girls you were looking at?

As for the worry of biting each other and causing death, I really think that is your anxiety/past experience taking over. I am not saying it is impossible that this could happen, but these catastrophizing thoughts will not help anything and certainly not change the outcome. It is totally valid that you are having some bad thoughts based on everything you have been through with your piggies, but it is not a helpful thought so therefore I would just chuck it out your mind (easier said than done )

I would think for a group of 6 you would be needing more space, the recommended size for 4 is 2x5. Also bearing in mind the loft area does not count towards the cage size as piggies are not climbers.
I wonder, would you be up for making a second cage and having two separate groups?

I will attach some of the forums guides related to your questions -
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Cage Size Guide
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

Thank you for taking the time to read and give advice. Is much appreciated!

I will look to work through the catastrophising as, as you say it doesn't help the outcome. And the outcome will most likely not be such a worst case scenario.

Thank you and @Piggies&buns for assisting with suggested cage sizes. Yes the group I was looking at was three girls. I think I've just had a bit of confusion regarding loft space not contributing to overall space. I have attached a picture of Thier setup. I was under the impression that the 2x6 and 2x2 space (there is a shallow Ramp and I often see the three of them sitting up there so they do use it) would combine to be effectively a 2x8.

I have never had more than 5 piggies in there at once anyway (which it seemingly is an ok size space for if 2x5 is ok for 4 piggies). hence why I was trying to find out more about if it would be suitable for 6.

Thank you again I do feel better for sharing and for you both giving feedback and advice x

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for taking the time to read and give advice. Is much appreciated!

I will look to work through the catastrophising as, as you say it doesn't help the outcome. And the outcome will most likely not be such a worst case scenario.

Thank you and @Piggies&buns for assisting with suggested cage sizes. Yes the group I was looking at was three girls. I think I've just had a bit of confusion regarding loft space not contributing to overall space. I have attached a picture of Thier setup. I was under the impression that the 2x6 and 2x2 space (there is a shallow Ramp and I often see the three of them sitting up there so they do use it) would combine to be effectively a 2x8.

I have never had more than 5 piggies in there at once anyway (which it seemingly is an ok size space for if 2x5 is ok for 4 piggies). hence why I was trying to find out more about if it would be suitable for 6.

Thank you again I do feel better for sharing and for you both giving feedback and advice x

No, I am afraid lofts don’t count at all. Piggies are ground roaming and any space connected by a ramp does not count.
Your cage is therefore a 2x6 cage so is big enough for 4 piggies.

3 piggies need a 2x5
4 piggies need a 2x6.
5 piggies need a 2x7
6 piggies need a 2x8

 

[WDSgpigs]

Hi and welcome

HUGS

I am very sorry for your traumatic experience. It does really whack you when you can't brace for it and will take you some time to get over a multipack loss in quick succession. You can only process so much at any given time before you end up with what I call grieving indigestion when you have too more on your plate than you can deal with at any time. Eventually you will get through it although you may experience the occasional hiccup when a not properly digested bit of grieving is coming up again for whatever reason.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

My worst series was three unrelated deaths in just a week in august 2021, only one of which - the third one - I was braced for. Those deaths did actually come hard on the heels of a fourth and I lost two piggies unexpectedly on consecutive days just before the last Christmas. Coincidental stampedes to the Rainbow Bridge happen more often than we think. It's not your fault and just cosmic bad luck. Try to think of them all together at the Bridge and mourn them together. That can help a little.

In order to hopefully lay some of the ghosts of the dying process to rest, you may find the relevant chapter about multiple organ failure helpful in putting some of your observations into a bit more of a perspective. Once the body starts closing down it is unfortunately a one-way road.
The dying natural process is a lot more physical than most owners expect and can really majorly throw you. Peacefully drifting away in one's sleep is actually the exception and pretty rare.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

It is great that you want to adopt. Why don't contact all rescues within your reach and ask for already bonded pairs or groups of sows or a sow pair which could be bonded with at the rescue with a neutered boar of theirs (if they have them)? This should neatly settle your bonding concerns.
Bonded sow trios or quartets turn up in rescue occasionally but often struggle to find a home together, as do many adult boar pairs who are past the big teenage hormones. If you can afford to wait for the right combo to come along, then it is worth waiting. Summer holiday dumping season is not far away. Rescues also often have piggies in quarantine/on recovery or pregnancy watch that are not yet ready for adoption.

I have adopted wholesale a dumped little mixed gender piggy family (dad was neutered at the rescue) all the way from Cornwall last October; they have helped me cope when I lost pace with my own grieving process due to overload. Three of the resulting babies (two now neutered boys and the only girl) have also stayed on although they are not living with the core group of a mother, son and his sister (both sows were pregnant from the boar). The new lives have helped me to cope with the 7 further losses (mostly age related) I have incurred since their arrival.

As you are finding out, ultimately the joy that piggies bring us outweighs the pain of their loss.

Here is some practical information, which you may find helpful:
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs
Guinea-pig-forum-recommended-rescues
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

Thank you so much @weibke for your really thoughtful and considered response. And thank you also for opening up and sharing about your own experiences. I know I am not alone in multiple tragic losses but really does help to have someone say they have been there and made it through the other side without letting their fear stop them getting more piggies xx

I will look through the articles on the forum that yourself and @piggl have suggested as I'm sure they will help to bring me further peace and understanding. I think your term of grieveing indigestion really perfectly captures it, and is something I will remember.

I will also look to be braver and go for more piggies as they do bring me so much happiness and is lovely to rescue and give them the best life I can. Though I will stick to 5 guinea pigs as that seems to be the largest group for the space I can offer (the max amount I've ever had in the space before anyway).

Thank you again x

 

[WDSgpigs]

No, I am afraid lofts don’t count at all. Piggies are ground roaming and any space connected by a ramp does not count.
Your cage is therefore a 2x6 cage so is big enough for 4 piggies.

3 piggies need a 2x5
4 piggies need a 2x6.
5 piggies need a 2x7
6 piggies need a 2x8

Ah ok, I had 5 in there before and I did tell the rescue my space But that's ok, thank you for the explanation x

 

[piggl]

Thank you for taking the time to read and give advice. Is much appreciated!

I will look to work through the catastrophising as, as you say it doesn't help the outcome. And the outcome will most likely not be such a worst case scenario.

Thank you and @Piggies&buns for assisting with suggested cage sizes. Yes the group I was looking at was three girls. I think I've just had a bit of confusion regarding loft space not contributing to overall space. I have attached a picture of Thier setup. I was under the impression that the 2x6 and 2x2 space (there is a shallow Ramp and I often see the three of them sitting up there so they do use it) would combine to be effectively a 2x8.

I have never had more than 5 piggies in there at once anyway (which it seemingly is an ok size space for if 2x5 is ok for 4 piggies). hence why I was trying to find out more about if it would be suitable for 6.

Thank you again I do feel better for sharing and for you both giving feedback and advice x

It is certainly tough, I struggle with anxiety so I definitely know getting “rid” of these thoughts is harder said than done.

Allow yourself to feel and grieve the tough situations you have been dealt, but I definitely wouldn’t allow it to stop you from rescuing and owning more of these fuzzy sausages of family members.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much @weibke for your really thoughtful and considered response. And thank you also for opening up and sharing about your own experiences. I know I am not alone in multiple tragic losses but really does help to have someone say they have been there and made it through the other side without letting their fear stop them getting more piggies xx

I will look through the articles on the forum that yourself and @piggl have suggested as I'm sure they will help to bring me further peace and understanding. I think your term of grieveing indigestion really perfectly captures it, and is something I will remember.

I will also look to be braver and go for more piggies as they do bring me so much happiness and is lovely to rescue and give them the best life I can. Though I will stick to 5 guinea pigs as that seems to be the largest group for the space I can offer (the max amount I've ever had in the space before anyway).

Thank you again x

If you can, look for a group of 2-4 bonded sows or 2-3 sows and a neutered boar of their choice which is about the closest you can come to working with their social instincts. Allow the rescue to do the intro and composition and - if they have pregnant sows in the pipeline - take the time to wait so you can adopt a readymade little family group unless one has been handed in. They are usually the most stable.
Take your time and do not feel you have to rush because it is really worth getting it right. The piggies that are destined for you will find you, believe me - like my little Cornish family (who were caught by a forum member) have found me at the right time when my many losses in the last couple of years meant that I had the space for a larger group pen sooner than expected.

Otherwise consider a stuck in rescue boar pair if one really plucks your heart strings - they will need more space per piggy than a bonded sow or mixed group. Be open-minded and let it happen. You'll know when the right piggies come along, I promise you!

PS: Rescues also have to also brace for another wave of surrenders of piggies as there will be many families unable to pay their mortgages in the coming months. Over a million homes are affected and a fair number with pets that will usually not be allowed in their new rented accommodation, even more so if inflations stays high in the UK.