Are indoor guineas more prone to bladder issues?

ConfusedMamapig

ConfusedMamapig

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Hi. I'm interested in everyone's opinion on this. I had three piggies, all just over a year old. One was sadly pts two and a half weeks ago due to bladder issues (he developed a bladder stone and then stopped eating and despite pain relief and critical care we just couldn't get him back). My other two at the same time have started squeaking when weeing. Following tests at the vets both have blood in their urine (we have ruled out a stone in one and are investigating the other). They are both on sulfatrim which sees to be improving things so it may be a uti in both, not quite sure yet. I had a chat with the vet this morning along the lines of why all three with bladder problems, is it just bad luck or something I am doing wrong (can't help thinking that every now and then). He said it's not me, it's how they are kept eg indoors. He said because they are prey animals the indoor environment can be more stressful and can often underpin poor drinking habits. It's true my three hadn't been amazing drinkers but I just assumed some were and some weren't (and I got the latter). They do all drink regularly, just not very much. Although our c&c set up does have hideys and safe spaces my vet gave me some tips on putting more bottles all around, particularly in safe areas and creating more cover. He said that poor drinking could very likely be due to them not feeling safe to visit the water bottle. I am so alarmed that in having them indoors (which the kids love) I have inadvertently not given them the best environment possible....the last thing I ever intended. Plus I hate to think that they are living in a heightened state of stress. I have three children and although they (the guinea pigs!) are tucked away there is often noise and activity in the house. However that said all of them regularly sleep in full view, out in the middle of the cage not even under a hidey...so maybe they are not stressed. I don't know. Does anyone have some thoughts, like I said three bladder poorly piggies in three weeks (including one pts) it's making me question everything...
 
So sorry for your loss, hope your other two little piggies get better soon x
I think it can be a combination of things, but the main is a predisposition to bladder stones and urinary problems in my mind. In general guinea pigs don’t seem quite as robust as they used to be. I don’t know if that’s because of inbreeding or the fact that they tend to live indoors now or not? We probably notice “off days” now they are indoors too whereas outside it could be easily overlooked. Vet skills and knowledge have also increased, so we expect our poorly pigs to be treated too
My first guinea pigs between 30 - 50 years ago did seem healthier though and they lived outside/unheated garage (winter) in a hutch. I think there are huge benefits to having indoor guinea pigs, especially for the owner, but also for the guinea pigs themselves. There is nothing sadder than seeing a lonely rabbit or guinea pig stuck forgotten at the end of a garden. I’m in no way suggesting that most owners who keep piggies outside neglect them in any way but it does happen to some, where families and kids lose interest over the winter because it’s so unpleasant to go outside
 
I am so sorry for your loss. I hope your other 2 feel better very quickly.
I absolutely endorse everything that the above poster has said. I have heard this indoors theory before, it may be a small contributing factor in some cases but I doubt it's the reason guinea pigs get stones, outdoor ones get them too. Your boars don't sound like they are stressed if they lie in the open. I've had 3 boars with stones and yes they live indoors. We are a very quiet couple whose piggies make more noise than we do! Diet plays a small part, not drinking enough would also be a problem but you can lead a horse to water ..... I believe the biggest cause to be genetics and guinea pigs that come from pet shops (especially the big chains) are not well bred.
I don't think you have done anything wrong. When my 3rd boar in 2 years got stones I was a sobbing mess at the vets blaming myself. The vet told me it was nothing I was doing, she had done some research into stones and said she was sure it was bad breeding in most cases resulting in the body not treating calcium correctly. Rusty was the 5th piggie with stones she had seen that week and it was only Wednesday!
Some things I have found that appear to help are
Filtering water (there's more calcium in tap water than high calcium veg) - Wetting veg before feeding it - Cutting out high calcium veg like spinich/kale - Feed wheat and soy free pellets (not more than a tablespoon per day per pig).
 
Bill & Ted said:
So sorry for your loss, hope your other two little piggies get better soon x
I think it can be a combination of things, but the main is a predisposition to bladder stones and urinary problems in my mind. In general guinea pigs don’t seem quite as robust as they used to be. I don’t know if that’s because of inbreeding or the fact that they tend to live indoors now or not? We probably notice “off days” now they are indoors too whereas outside it could be easily overlooked. Vet skills and knowledge have also increased, so we expect our poorly pigs to be treated too
My first guinea pigs between 30 - 50 years ago did seem healthier though and they lived outside/unheated garage (winter) in a hutch. I think there are huge benefits to having indoor guinea pigs, especially for the owner, but also for the guinea pigs themselves. There is nothing sadder than seeing a lonely rabbit or guinea pig stuck forgotten at the end of a garden. I’m in no way suggesting that most owners who keep piggies outside neglect them in any way but it does happen to some, where families and kids lose interest over the winter because it’s so unpleasant to go outside
Click to expand...
I know what you mean. When I had piggies growing up they seemed so much more bullet proof! I have to say I love them being indoors and the children have built up a far stronger bond than I think I did as a child when my piggies were in the garage. I felt awful though when the vet suggested having them indoors might have unwittingly contributed to their problem. I am glad you said about breeding being a possible explanation too. I think that's probably true, the little chap we lost also had teeth issues and arthritic knees at just one year old, as well as the predisposition to stones. So sad, feel like they are being bred without the chance to have a happy life, we were distraught losing him so young.
 
piggieminder said:
I am so sorry for your loss. I hope your other 2 feel better very quickly.
I absolutely endorse everything that the above poster has said. I have heard this indoors theory before, it may be a small contributing factor in some cases but I doubt it's the reason guinea pigs get stones, outdoor ones get them too. Your boars don't sound like they are stressed if they lie in the open. I've had 3 boars with stones and yes they live indoors. We are a very quiet couple whose piggies make more noise than we do! Diet plays a small part, not drinking enough would also be a problem but you can lead a horse to water ..... I believe the biggest cause to be genetics and guinea pigs that come from pet shops (especially the big chains) are not well bred.
I don't think you have done anything wrong. When my 3rd boar in 2 years got stones I was a sobbing mess at the vets blaming myself. The vet told me it was nothing I was doing, she had done some research into stones and said she was sure it was bad breeding in most cases resulting in the body not treating calcium correctly. Rusty was the 5th piggie with stones she had seen that week and it was only Wednesday!
Some things I have found that appear to help are
Filtering water (there's more calcium in tap water than high calcium veg) - Wetting veg before feeding it - Cutting out high calcium veg like spinich/kale - Feed wheat and soy free pellets (not more than a tablespoon per day per pig).
Click to expand...
Thank you! You can't help feeling it must be something you're doing when it keeping happening. I'm so sorry you have had the same thing several times over, it's awful isn't it When this all started I changed to filtered water, put them on a low calcium diet and switched to a tablespoon of grain free nuggets. My mission at the moment is to get them drinking more but like you say...you can walk a horse to water....I am going to add in more bottles, especially in hideys. I already wet their veggies. I did think about trying to syringe feed them water but I know they won't take it willingly and don't want to stress them out.
 
I am sorry to hear this.
Some piggies do just have a genetic predisposition to stones - there is obviously nothing that can be done about that. The only thing you can control is their diet - ensuring drinking water is filtered, pellets are kept strictly limited to one tablespoon and that high calcium veg is also kept limited (once per week). You cannot make them drink - it is the one thing they will most definitely do for themselves if they want to (drinking coming before the need to eat).

I have heard the stress theory of indoor piggies also but i wouldn’t think that it would be a major factor of stones at all - stone formation is to do with calcium processes in the body
 
I'm so sorry for your stone troubles. We've also had our share. My water bottles are now positioned so the pigs can drink while hidden. I did this change when a little sow got stones a few years back (she passed them and with antibiotics was fine). I'd seen her drink in the day when she ate pellets but when I changed the position of the bottles I realised how much she actually started to drink in the night because she kept waking me up!
My pigs mainly drink in the evening when they eat hay and pellets together. They are indoors but get the choice of going out and I can tell you they choose to be inside in the nice snuggle tunnels! Whether this is better for them biologically I don't know - and I'm not sure they do either! I do believe in natural light and fresh air for them and for us ☺️
 
ConfusedMamapig said:
I know what you mean. When I had piggies growing up they seemed so much more bullet proof! I have to say I love them being indoors and the children have built up a far stronger bond than I think I did as a child when my piggies were in the garage. I felt awful though when the vet suggested having them indoors might have unwittingly contributed to their problem. I am glad you said about breeding being a possible explanation too. I think that's probably true, the little chap we lost also had teeth issues and arthritic knees at just one year old, as well as the predisposition to stones. So sad, feel like they are being bred without the chance to have a happy life, we were distraught losing him so young.
Click to expand...
yes I‘m sure it’s partly down to bad breeding. I lost my boar Ted at over 5.5 years old down to an enlarged kidney. The vet said either a kidney stone or tumour after he had suffered a UTI. Ted and his brother Bill both developed dental problems. Ted had a spur on one of his molars and Bill broke an incisor which left his incisors brittle and prone to breaking on occasion. It definitely makes you wonder if there was a genetic link there, although their dental problems where totally different. My vet said he could make a perfect set of teeth out of the brothers!

Wishing your remaining piggies the very best of luck x
 
I would really like the answer to this bladder stone etc issue too - when I first started reading about it, I was convinced it must be yet another issue arising from the horrific factory farming used to supply pet shops.

I did acquire two that originated from farmed lines, and although they did not have bladder issues, neither of them made it past 6 and one of them actually developed arthritis, which I had never seen in any of my guineas before. I think the saddest thing about them, and one of the things that still upsets me when I see people talking about babies from pet shops, was how totally terrified and unprepared to be any sort of pet that they were.

But then until the pandemic came along with it's whole " I'm bored and I want a puppy, kitten whatever, and I want it now no matter where it comes from", I thought people had got the message and no longer bought from puppy farms or pet shops - I was so wrong.

Nature or nurture, or perhaps both? I am concerned that bringing mine indoors may cause issues, imho, living totally indoors is unnatural and unhealthy. They have been indoors for a year now and I do worry about it. The only way I could test out whether it was feeding related would be to change the way I feed (I don't feed mine on current internet lines, and never have done) but the main difference would then be the much higher level of dehydrated food they would get, and I do have serious concerns about the wisdom of feeding a mostly dry diet to a species that may have a propensity to bladder problems. I always know when they are not getting enough fresh food as they start drinking from their water bottles - whereas normally they never touch them. Suppose I put them on this mostly dry forage diet and they didn't drink enough, no - I can't bring myself to find out even in the interests of science.

But I feel so sad for all the people struggling with these bladder issues and I wish we could work out what is going on. In decades I have never had a guinea pig with any sort of urinary problems, so if I get one now, I for sure WILL blame bringing them indoors!
 
I've just lost a bladder cancer piggy and a bladder stone piggy, (she didn't die of the stone), so have also been thinking about it.
I know bladder cancer rates in humans are higher in people who work with chemicals, such as hairdressers. I wonder how or if that could relate to piggies.
My bladder stone piggy was hugely overfed food like kale, spinach and parsley when she was young. Comparing her to my childhood piggies, who got the odd carrot or cabbage leaf, her issues could be to do with foods which weren't around when I was feeding my childhood pigs.
 
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