Any advice - Guinea Pig not recovering from dental surgery

[s.buck]

Last Monday (6th June) one of our pigs had to have dental surgery. This is the third time he’s had the procedure (the last time was about 18 months ago). All procedures have been done at our local vets under anaesthetic. Following the previous two procedures we’ve actually taken him to the Cat and Rabbit Clinic at Northampton for piece of mind that the procedure had been done correctly as he was a bit slow to start eating again - both times Simon said that the other vets had done a good job and that we had nothing to worry about so we are fairly confident our vets knew what they were doing.

After his third procedure last Monday, he was slightly off and out of it presumably due to the GA and we continued to syringe feed him. Thursday/Friday of last week he started to pick up and was eating small bits of veg but we kept up with the syringe feeding. Over the weekend he went quite downhill and stopped eating on his own. After his last dental, it took him well over a week to get back to normal so we didn’t worry too much and just continued with syringe feeding. However, Sunday night he really deteriorated so he was back at the vets yesterday morning. They found a bit of food in his mouth and said that he was very dehydrated and hadn’t actually been swallowing much of what we had been giving him and that his gut had started to slow. They said this was caused by the aesthetic. They gave him fluids and a gut stimulant and asked us to come back this morning. Last night we saw no improvement (if anything he was worse) and he was pretty much refusing syringe food which have continually tried to give him, along with small amounts of water. To be honest, we were quite surprised to find him still with us this morning. Back at the vets today, they said more of the same, that his gut is very slow/stopped. They did an X-ray and said he has some bloating but couldn’t find anything else (they also checked his teeth again) and still put it down to the anaesthesia. We actually asked the vet if it was kinder to have him put to sleep as he’s so lame but the vet said he could still pull through. He had another gut stimulant and has been prescribed Tagamet for the bloating. He’s also been on Metacam at 0.44ml once per day since his dental. Today, we have tried to syringe feed him tiny amounts (0.1-0.2ml) every hour in hope that he might get more down him rather than sticking to the normal 2-3 hour intervals. We have seen no improvement at all and he’s still not really swallowing his any food. He basically looks like he’s given up and is just laying in his cage not moving or doing anything. The only difference we have noticed today is that his eyes are fairly wide open rather than mostly closed which was they were yesterday. We have another follow up appointment at the vets tomorrow morning (if he makes it that long). Do you think that there’s a chance that he will still pull through? We feel like there’s a larger issue rather than just a reaction to the anaesthetic but it hasn’t been picked up. If he’s no better in the morning, we will mostly likely insist that he is put to sleep as it seems the kindest thing to do right now any advice or suggestions on other issues he might have is very welcomed.

 

[Siikibam]

I’m so sorry your boy is not well. I have no experience of dentals or bloat so won’t comment on that. But I will offer support and best wishes for your boy and you.

PS is he on dog or cat metacam? I would also speak to the vet about giving it twice daily. They have a fast metabolism so one dose only lasts 12 hours.

 

[s.buck]

I’m so sorry your boy is not well. I have no experience of dentals or bloat so won’t comment on that. But I will offer support and best wishes for your boy and you.

PS is he on dog or cat metacam? I would also speak to the vet about giving it twice daily. They have a fast metabolism so one dose only lasts 12 hours.

Thank you he is on the Cat/Guinea pig Metacam. I had read about the dose only lasting 12 hours and I’m sure he was prescribed twice daily following his previous dentals. It’s difficult to know if he is in pain or just too weak to do anything now. Normally when he won’t eat due to his teeth hurting, he hunches himself up. At the moment he’s just laid down quite stretched out but not moving.

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm so sorry for your struggles and for your little chap. It is very hard to know what's happening at this point.

I've lost pigs in the hours following operations that have otherwise been judged as successful. One boy went within about 6 hours of coming round - he was already going cold when I collected him, poor lad. And last year my feisty girl Zara passed within a couple days of a successful tooth removal which actually took much less time under anaesthetic than they'd anticipated. On both occasions the vets were worried because the piggies were "... a bit flat" in their words and that's what I saw. Head down, laying, sleeping, crawling and not picking up following syringe feeding. I don't know why and they didn't know why. We were all very upset. My lovely boar at least was quiet, he just faded away. It was tragic but the alternative to trying the op had been pts so we tried to make him comfortable and at least felt like he'd had a chance. But my poor girl really struggled in the night and I was torn whether to take her in for pts or not. There was no right choice. She passed at home the next day. But the day she got home from the vet she was eating plenty from the syringe, took her emeprid and her pain meds OK: she was properly stoked up with food but she was strange in herself. She seemed to rally, chew, swallow and look OK but then just drift out of it with a glazed look and her head laid flat again. In the box on the way home she'd had phases of being herself and bossing her companion but then she just dropped and lay. The GA is a big thing for them and they don't always make it through the recovery period. Unlike a mature boy I'd had neutered years ago... he came to and started munching - I'm not sure he realised anything had happened! But my girl woke me in the night breathing very hard. It might have been pain - maybe gut stasis settling in despite the full tummy and meds. She never ate again. I'm not sure there was anything I could've done to change that outcome.

I don't know whether there are various methods of anaesthetising our small furries or bringing them round again, or whether some of these are better than others. You might want to ask your vet whether the same methods were used this time or whether he was under for longer. But as far as I know it's quite possible that as they get older the same procedure they'd had before can just knock them back a little bit more. I hope he can pick up x

 

[Wiebke]

BIG HUGS

Even with the best vet care and precautions, guinea pigs can still have a bad reaction to a GA and never fully come back after an op or take a turn for the worst. It is thankfully a minority of ops but it can happen with any vet.

Your boy has had several GAs in a fairly short time which increases the risks, as does overweight (yellow fat around the organs), by the way. The risk of complications als rises with the length of time piggies are under, a can older older age with more underlying issues.

It happened to my Nesta in 2017 after a tricky incisor removal op (due to a root abscess) at the Cat& Rabbit. She never really perked up and then went downhill quite quickly a few weeks in; simply never waking up from an afternoon nap about a month later. She was 5 years and otherwise perfectly healthy and spayed. Nobody's fault, just cosmic bad luck.

 

[s.buck]

I'm so sorry for your struggles and for your little chap. It is very hard to know what's happening at this point.

I've lost pigs in the hours following operations that have otherwise been judged as successful. One boy went within about 6 hours of coming round - he was already going cold when I collected him, poor lad. And last year my feisty girl Zara passed within a couple days of a successful tooth removal which actually took much less time under anaesthetic than they'd anticipated. On both occasions the vets were worried because the piggies were "... a bit flat" in their words and that's what I saw. Head down, laying, sleeping, crawling and not picking up following syringe feeding. I don't know why and they didn't know why. We were all very upset. My lovely boar at least was quiet, he just faded away. It was tragic but the alternative to trying the op had been pts so we tried to make him comfortable and at least felt like he'd had a chance. But my poor girl really struggled in the night and I was torn whether to take her in for pts or not. There was no right choice. She passed at home the next day. But the day she got home from the vet she was eating plenty from the syringe, took her emeprid and her pain meds OK: she was properly stoked up with food but she was strange in herself. She seemed to rally, chew, swallow and look OK but then just drift out of it with a glazed look and her head laid flat again. In the box on the way home she'd had phases of being herself and bossing her companion but then she just dropped and lay. The GA is a big thing for them and they don't always make it through the recovery period. Unlike a mature boy I'd had neutered years ago... he came to and started munching - I'm not sure he realised anything had happened! But my girl woke me in the night breathing very hard. It might have been pain - maybe gut stasis settling in despite the full tummy and meds. She never ate again. I'm not sure there was anything I could've done to change that outcome.

I don't know whether there are various methods of anaesthetising our small furries or bringing them round again, or whether some of these are better than others. You might want to ask your vet whether the same methods were used this time or whether he was under for longer. But as far as I know it's quite possible that as they get older the same procedure they'd had before can just knock them back a little bit more. I hope he can pick up x

Thank you for your response. It sounds that your girl went through a similar thing to what we are experiencing now. And you’re right, there is no right decision. We were quite prepared to have him pts this morning but the vet still thought there was a chance. It just so awful seeing him struggle and waste away. He’s always been a relatively big boy with a great character and now he’s just skin and bones we no enthusiasm for anything

 

[s.buck]

BIG HUGS

Even with the best vet care and precautions, guinea pigs can still have a bad reaction to a GA and never fully come back after an op or take a turn for the worst. It is thankfully a minority of ops but it can happen with any vet.

Your boy has had several GAs in a fairly short time which increases the risks, as does overweight (yellow fat around the organs), by the way. The risk of complications als rises with the length of time piggies are under, a can older older age with more underlying issues.

It happened to my Nesta in 2017 after a tricky incisor removal op (due to a root abscess) at the Cat& Rabbit. She never really perked up and then went downhill quite quickly a few weeks in; simply never waking up from an afternoon nap about a month later. She was 5 years and otherwise perfectly healthy and spayed. Nobody's fault, just cosmic bad luck.

Yes as I say this is his third time under GA. He’s only just 4 so not exactly old. He’s was a big pig but not overweight (and he’s definitely not now). Just hate seeing him suffer - we will definitely not let him suffer past tomorrow. We are starting to get concerned as to how his cage mate will cope. They are brothers so have never been separated and have always been the only pigs in the house.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your response. It sounds that your girl went through a similar thing to what we are experiencing now. And you’re right, there is no right decision. We were quite prepared to have him pts this morning but the vet still thought there was a chance. It just so awful seeing him struggle and waste away. He’s always been a relatively big boy with a great character and now he’s just skin and bones we no enthusiasm for anything

Hi

You may find this guide here helpful; it doesn't make an easy read but it talks you through all the aspects of end of life care and decisions, so while it is no less painful, you can hopefully do it with a calmer mind. The ultimate decision lies with you, and you alone.

There is a grey area where is no right or wrong, just a different weighing up of factors in play. Any decision to pts has to be first and foremost with your piggy's welfare and quality in life in mind and secondly, it has to feel right for you so you can digest it all better and make peace more easily eventually with what has happened. It is never an easy situation to navigate.

Here is the link: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

What you can do for a companion and for yourself:
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

PS: I would recommend to contact Cavy Corner in Doncaster for rescue dating a new friend. You anmd your remaining boy will be in very safe, caring and experienced hands there.
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs

HUGS

 

[s.buck]

Hi

You may find this guide here helpful; it doesn't make an easy read but it talks you through all the aspects of end of life care and decisions, so while it is no less painful, you can hopefully do it with a calmer mind. The ultimate decision lies with you, and you alone.

There is a grey area where is no right or wrong, just a different weighing up of factors in play. Any decision to pts has to be first and foremost with your piggy's welfare and quality in life in mind and secondly, it has to feel right for you so you can digest it all better and make peace more easily eventually with what has happened. It is never an easy situation to navigate.

Here is the link: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

What you can do for a companion and for yourself:
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

PS: I would recommend to contact Cavy Corner in Doncaster for rescue dating a new friend. You anmd your remaining boy will be in very safe, caring and experienced hands there.
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs

HUGS

Thank you for the links. I had already read your guide on end of life earlier today in preparation for the worst. The Bereaved Pig guide will be useful though so thank you very much for that

 

[s.buck]

Hi

You may find this guide here helpful; it doesn't make an easy read but it talks you through all the aspects of end of life care and decisions, so while it is no less painful, you can hopefully do it with a calmer mind. The ultimate decision lies with you, and you alone.

There is a grey area where is no right or wrong, just a different weighing up of factors in play. Any decision to pts has to be first and foremost with your piggy's welfare and quality in life in mind and secondly, it has to feel right for you so you can digest it all better and make peace more easily eventually with what has happened. It is never an easy situation to navigate.

Here is the link: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

What you can do for a companion and for yourself:
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

PS: I would recommend to contact Cavy Corner in Doncaster for rescue dating a new friend. You anmd your remaining boy will be in very safe, caring and experienced hands there.
Rescues (Adoption and Dating), Shops, Breeders or Online? - What to consider when getting guinea pigs

HUGS

Hi Wiebke,

Thank you for all of your advice. Unfortunately our boy passed away last night. We got up in the night around 12:30am to feed him and he couldn’t even stand or keep his head up so we knew he didn’t have long left. We made the decision not to get up and try and feed him again as he wasn’t accepting food and being handled probably wasn’t nice for him and that by trying to force feed him we were prolonging the inevitable. We knew that when we got up this morning he would likely no longer be with us so we thought it was the kindest thing to do.

We are now trying to figure out what is best for his brother. I have read your guide and found it very helpful and will contact Cavy Corner at Doncaster. I just have a couple of questions.

1. His brother that he left behind is a very independent pig. Steve (the pig who passed away) was very much more reliant on Gregory’s company and would panic if he couldn’t see him. Gregory however has never been this way and has not been bothered when Steve wasn’t in the cage or was at the vets. Is it likely that it will make it more difficult to find a pig to bind with?

2. At the moment Gregory seems okay, he wasn’t guarding Steve’s body and was just in his hammock when we went in this morning. He’s eaten his breakfast as normal even though we had taken Steve’s body out of the cage. Is there a chance that he might be okay as a single pig? Gregory is just about 4 now. We are slightly concerned that if we do find him a mate, he could still go downhill and chose to follow Steve and then again we’d be left with a single pig who we’d have to find a mate for. We love Steve and Gregory to pieces but always said that we probably wouldn’t replace them as they were so unique and it would be difficult to find characters as good as theirs. We had hoped that they would grow old together and pass at a similar time but obviously that has not happened. It may sound a bit harsh but we are a little concerned of being in a continuous situation where we would always need to find a mate for a bereaved pig. We definitely don’t want to give Gregory up so if finding him a mate is the best option then for sure that’s what we will do. If we do go down that route, is it best to try and find a pig of a similar age? You say in your article that pigs off all ages can be bonded but I can’t imagine Gregory taking well to a young pig.

Apologies for the questions and for a sad post so early in the morning, but we appreciate any guidance you can give. Many thanks

 

[LucyP]

Others are best placed to answer your questions but I just wanted to say how very sorry I was to read this sad news. You gave him a lovely home and a happy life.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m so sorry for your loss.

It all comes own to character compatibility, age isn’t the main factor. Finding a friend via dating is the safest way to find a friend even if if takes several tries - the piggy can be tried with whatever piggies are available using the rescues guidance and knowledge of the piggies in their care. He can choose his own friend rather than you trying to work out whether older, younger, the same age is going to be best. Neutering and finding him a sow may also be an option - boar/sow bonds tend to be more stable. Being alone, potentially for up to the next four or so years, wouldn’t be in his best interests and we would all encourage you to try to find him a new friend. It may not be a quick process and may take a few attempts
If you wish to end your piggy cycle, then fostering a compatible friend for him may be an option. You then return the foster to the rescue when your own piggy passes.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I‘m so sorry you lost your boy, having had a dental piggie myself I know just how awful these procedures can be. They don’t always take well to aesthetic and can go down hill very quickly. Sending big hugs to you, he will have known just how much you cared and loved him

Sleep tight little man

 

[Bill & Ted]

A rescue is definitely the best way to go to find your remaining boy a friend. He can then choose. Do email s9me and explain your situation, don’t be surprised not to see single boars on their websites. They usually have several for the purpose of boar bonding for bereaved piggies
Good luck, be prepared to travel if you can, it’s really worth it x

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry you lost Steve. You did all you could for him.

 

[s.buck]

A rescue is definitely the best way to go to find your remaining boy a friend. He can then choose. Do email s9me and explain your situation, don’t be surprised not to see single boars on their websites. They usually have several for the purpose of boar bonding for bereaved piggies
Good luck, be prepared to travel if you can, it’s really worth it x

Thank you for the advice, we will definitely get him a mate. He’s not neutered and after seeing what GA can do we wouldn’t want to put Gregory through that so would definitely need a boar.

Another question, our boys had a big homemade cage - it was more than big enough for 2 pigs. Whilst Gregory is alone should we make the cage smaller or is it best to keep things as they are?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I would personally leave the cage as is.

 

[Wiebke]

BIG HUGS
I am ever so sorry that Gregory has passed way but glad that he could make his own journey to the Rainbow Bridge. It is always a big relief for me when I don't have to rush any of mine to the vets for pts. But is always such a heart-breaking shock when you discover a piggy in organ failure in the first place, even when you know that they are frail and their days are numbered.
Gregory has known for a quite a while that Steve has been ill and will have taken his leave from Steve before he died at the start of him going into organ failure.

It is always a relief when a piggy is coping and getting on with life even if it is confounding your human grieving expectations. Gregory will still need a few days to do his own grieving (but without you having to worry about him acutely pining) while you can set up a rescue bonding date ideally within 1-4 weeks for him; if you decide to neuter, the dating wait will be naturally longer because of the 6 weeks post-op safety wait but it will be worth it. Just because he is not showing it, doesn't mean that he is not missing Steve or is not grieving.

All rescues offering a dating service have normally some piggies available for dating; especially now. Mutual liking and character compatibility comes a long way before age or gender - whether that is a squishy adult boar or a submissive youngster. Adult boars passed the worst of the testosterone are actually the easier to bond the older they get.

Dating gives yours piggies the choice to have a say in who they get on with; often it may seem a somewhat surprising one. But you will get a good bond out of it and will come to love the newbie in due time even if they are not your own first choice. Seeing Gregory happy will also take a big burden of your soul and help you with your own grieving process.
Plus you can be sure that any newbie won't come with any of the usual pitfalls that await the unwary because they will have had their mandatory quarantine at the rescue and also any necessary vet care to get them to good health before being ready for adoption.

Here is some information on neutering, if you would like to consider going down this route. Please take your time and don't feel you need to rush out right now. Explore your options and then make the decisions that are right for you; it all depends on your individual rescue and vet access. The best dating rescue within your reach is Cavy Corner. You will have to feel out your vets how confident/experienced they are re. boar neutering and whether you would like to risk another GA again so soon after losing Steve. At least you have several options for Gregory so you can choose what feels best for you.
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care

You are welcome to post a tribute to Steve in our Rainbow Bridge section if or at any time it feels right for you. The section is there for all members who want to make use of it but there is no obligation to do so.

 

[s.buck]

BIG HUGS
I am ever so sorry that Gregory has passed way but glad that he could make his own journey to the Rainbow Bridge. It is always a big relief for me when I don't have to rush any of mine to the vets for pts. But is always such a heart-breaking shock when you discover a piggy in organ failure in the first place, even when you know that they are frail and their days are numbered.
Gregory has known for a quite a while that Steve has been ill and will have taken his leave from Steve before he died at the start of him going into organ failure.

It is always a relief when a piggy is coping and getting on with life even if it is confounding your human grieving expectations. Gregory will still need a few days to do his own grieving (but without you having to worry about him acutely pining) while you can set up a rescue bonding date ideally within 1-4 weeks for him; if you decide to neuter, the dating wait will be naturally longer because of the 6 weeks post-op safety wait but it will be worth it. Just because he is not showing it, doesn't mean that he is not missing Steve or is not grieving.

All rescues offering a dating service have normally some piggies available for dating; especially now. Mutual liking and character compatibility comes a long way before age or gender - whether that is a squishy adult boar or a submissive youngster. Adult boars passed the worst of the testosterone are actually the easier to bond the older they get.

Dating gives yours piggies the choice to have a say in who they get on with; often it may seem a somewhat surprising one. But you will get a good bond out of it and will come to love the newbie in due time even if they are not your own first choice. Seeing Gregory happy will also take a big burden of your soul and help you with your own grieving process.
Plus you can be sure that any newbie won't come with any of the usual pitfalls that await the unwary because they will have had their mandatory quarantine at the rescue and also any necessary vet care to get them to good health before being ready for adoption.

Here is some information on neutering, if you would like to consider going down this route. Please take your time and don't feel you need to rush out right now. Explore your options and then make the decisions that are right for you; it all depends on your individual rescue and vet access. The best dating rescue within your reach is Cavy Corner. You will have to feel out your vets how confident/experienced they are re. boar neutering and whether you would like to risk another GA again so soon after losing Steve. At least you have several options for Gregory so you can choose what feels best for you.
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care

You are welcome to post a tribute to Steve in our Rainbow Bridge section if or at any time it feels right for you. The section is there for all members who want to make use of it but there is no obligation to do so.

Hi, thank you once again for the useful advice and your wishes. We are relieved that he isn’t suffering but it doesn’t make saying goodbye any easier. Ironically he chose to pass right next to his food bowl which is where he spent the majority of his time when he was in good health It all happened so quickly and he was such a happy pig so we feel like he has definitely gone too soon as I say, we want to make sure we do what’s right for Gregory now. I’ve just spoken to Cavy Corner and they don’t currently have any single boars available. We will wait a week at least anyway so this may change and contact a few more rescue centres in the meantime. Thanks again for your help

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, thank you once again for the useful advice and your wishes. We are relieved that he isn’t suffering but it doesn’t make saying goodbye any easier. Ironically he chose to pass right next to his food bowl which is where he spent the majority of his time when he was in good health It all happened so quickly and he was such a happy pig so we feel like he has definitely gone too soon as I say, we want to make sure we do what’s right for Gregory now. I’ve just spoken to Cavy Corner and they don’t currently have any single boars available. We will wait a week at least anyway so this may change and contact a few more rescue centres in the meantime. Thanks again for your help

Try to take consolation that Steve didn't suffer for long - when the chips are down, we'd rather carry the extra pain from the shock ourselves if that means an easy death for our beloved ones) - and that he could make make journey to the Rainbow Bridge from his 'happy place'.

We can sadly never choose when and what from our beloved ones of any species die. We can only enjoy the time we have with them and make the best of it; the rest is out of our control and very much down to drawing a short straw in the cosmic lottery. You have quite obviously given Steve a very happy and loving home and life with the necessary vet care, so you haven't failed him in any way. As an owner you can always only do your best but you can never (and are not suspected to) win them all.

Sorry that Cavy Corner haven't got any suitable boars in. It is always the luck of the draw. At the moment, it is very much bonded piggies from owners with money pressures instead...