Any advice for piggies that have suddenly started fighting?

[lauryn1289]

Sorry in advance for the long post! I posted here a few months ago about how my boy Rico passed away suddenly and I panicked and adopted 2 boys for his friend Kip. It literally happened on the same day because I was so distraught about Kip being lonely for any amount of time at all and just acting on autopilot, not realising bonding 3 boars is next to impossible.

Currently they all live in an extended L shaped C&C cage, Kip has his own space and so do the new boys Ollie and Bobby. Kip can chat to them and interact them through the cubes and for a long time everything was going absolutely fine, but suddenly recently Ollie and Bobby will not stop fighting? They were bonded and adopted together as a pair, they had no issues apart from small bickering until recently. I read that having another pig live alongside in a blocked off space as a neighbour shouldn’t be a problem.

Probably about a month ago they started getting into tumbles and Ollie hiding in his own space ontop of a pigloo. A couple of nights ago I started separating them at night and when I’m gone (I had MRIs yesterday which took hours and other times I’ve been out for long periods I’ve seperated them incase they hurt eachother while I was gone or even asleep, not sure if it was the right thing to do but I really didn’t know what else to do), I did research and it seemed like doing that was okay to give them space from eachother as long as they can interact which they could. But today after letting them back together again a huge fight broke out, previously there’d be bits of hair pulled out and some chattering but today Ollie made a wound in Bobby’s face. He’s tilting his head the direction of the wound but he’s eating and seems calm and if it doesn’t seem better by tomorrow I’ll call the vet (it’s 8pm in Ireland at the moment). I have them separated now again especially after blood was drawn but where do I go from here? What could have caused the sudden rift? I don’t know what to do with Ollie and Bobby at the moment, is there any way I can reconnect them?

For context Kip is probably more than 5 right now and the woman I took Ollie and Bobby from last year said they were 1 1/2-2 years old

 

[My Piggies]

Hello
Unfortunately if they have drawn blood, their bond had very likely been broken and they will need to be permanently separated. You could try bonding one of them to Kip so you don't have three separate cages. Be aware that two boars should have 180cm x 60cm (2x5 C&C). They can still have interaction through the bars.
More experienced members will be along later.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Having another piggy as a neighbour is unlikely to be the cause of their issues.
The issue is due to an instability in their bond.

I appreciate you did it with the absolute best intentions and of course you would not want them to be fighting while you weren’t there, but sadly repeated separations and reintroductions means they are constantly trying to reestablish a relationship and it places extra pressure on their relationship which may already have been becoming unstable.
When boars get into this situation, you carry out a single temporary separation lasting a few days. After those few days apart, you put them on neutral territory (never reintroduce in one of their cages) and let the piggies make their decision on their futures in that one meeting - they will either want to remain together or a fight will break out and that is a clear answer that their bond is broken.

So, essentially, todays reintroduction and fight has given that answer - I’m afraid to say, such a fight means they no longer like each other and they will need to remain separated permanently.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Please do see a vet the wound. In the meantime, keep it clean with cooled boiled water with a little salt added

 

[lauryn1289]

Hello
Unfortunately if they have drawn blood, their bond had very likely been broken and they will need to be permanently separated. You could try bonding one of them to Kip so you don't have three separate cages. Be aware that two boars should have 180cm x 60cm (2x5 C&C). They can still have interaction through the bars.
More experienced members will be along later.

That’s what I thought I’m apprehensive about either of them picking on Kip because he’s a much smaller piggy and older of course and just minding his own business but I’ll put them out on neutral territory for a while and see how things go with him, thanks for your response! I have kip 5 years and his friend who passed Rico since 2016 and I never had issues like this before

 

[lauryn1289]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Having another piggy as a neighbour is unlikely to be the cause of their issues.
The issue is due to an instability in their bond.

I appreciate you did it with the absolute best intentions and of course you would not want them to be fighting while you weren’t there, but sadly repeated separations and reintroductions means they are constantly trying to reestablish a relationship and it places extra pressure on their relationship which may already have been becoming unstable.
When boars get into this situation, you carry out a single temporary separation lasting a few days. After those few days apart, you put them on neutral territory (never reintroduce in one of their cages) and let the piggies make their decision on their futures - they will either want to remain together or a fight will break out and that is a clear answer that their bond is broken.

So, essentially, todays reintroduction and fight has given that answer - I’m afraid to say, such a fight means they no longer like each other and they will need to remain separated permanently.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Please do see a vet the wound. In the meantime, keep it clean with cooled boiled water with a little salt added

Yeah I was worried that reintroducing and separating again wasn’t the best thing to do but I had seen some articles saying it’s okay to do and kinda ran with it purely because I was stumpted with what else to do. Their reintroduction yesterday seemed absolutely fine apart from small bickering but today was just vicious. And thank you for the wound advice! I’d stopped the bleeding with some cornstarch and rinsed it but I’ll clean it with salt too

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yeah I was worried that reintroducing and separating again wasn’t the best thing to do but I had seen some articles saying it’s okay to do and kinda ran with it purely because I was stumpted with what else to do. Their reintroduction yesterday seemed absolutely fine apart from small bickering but today was just vicious. And thank you for the wound advice! I’d stopped the bleeding with some cornstarch and rinsed it but I’ll clean it with salt too

It’s such a shame if their relationships break down, but just like us, we cant get along with everybody and sometimes fall outs occur.
If you do try one of them with Kip, then do make sure the neutral territory is just a pile of hay, no hides in the bonding pen. Bonding boars is one time, all or nothing event.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

If things work out and you can make a pair - I note you mention ‘pigloo’. A pigloo tends for be a one entrance hidey - if that is indeed what you have - then do be aware that such one entrance hideys are not recommended. It’s best if all hides have two doors so no piggy can get trapped inside one by the other, they can be a point of tension.

 

[Free Ranger]

@Bradshaw Piggies has neighbourly boars. I also had boar neighbours who were very companionable once they had been separated. I suspect the time is up for Ollie and Bobby though. Esp if Ollie has been trying to get out of the way on top of a pigloo for a while and now he has lashed out. Was Bobby the top boar? Sometimes people separate piggies and the underpig is calm about it but the dominant seems desperate to get through the bars. You have to go by the bullied pig - dominant piggy might just be trying to get in for another go at him. They will even jump bars to start a ruck!

I couldn't tell you what has triggered the fight although there have been one or two posts about fighting boars recently where springtime gets the blood up and their instinct is suddenly to compete for females. If your dominant boy attacks the submissive one that's unpleasant but fair enough. If your submissive boy had suddenly started to bully a previously dominant one it's wise to check that piggy's health. My solid pair of older boys had lived together most of their life but when one started to develop health problems the underpig took his chance and they had to be separated. It's just their nature. They still ate together and hung out together at the bars but as Harvey's health declined it meant he was safe from Casper's pushy ways.

 

[Bradshaw Piggies]

I have to agree with the advice you’ve been given above. Unfortunately it sounds like they aren’t going to get along. I know how irritating it is. We try our best, but piggies usually have other ideas!

I currently have two bonded pairs, but I do I have a single boar who lives quite happily next to his boar neighbours. I have seen them interact through the bars, and he’s a very happy boy in his own space. He’s so easily bullied, that we never managed to settle him with another boar.

Once piggies have made their minds up, there’s not a lot else we can do. That being said, I had two boars that absolutely despised each other, so I separated them and re-bonded with different boars. Years later, after they had both lost their bonded friends, I re-introduced them and now they get along famously. I think years of being neighbours, and time to mature helped them to become the friends they are now. They even share a bed now, after wanting to kill each other through the bars when they were younger!

Sorry that your boy’s bond didn’t work out. I do hope you can find a happy solution for all of you

 

[lauryn1289]

It’s such a shame if their relationships break down, but just like us, we cant get along with everybody and sometimes fall outs occur.
If you do try one of them with Kip, then do make sure the neutral territory is just a pile of hay, no hides in the bonding pen. Bonding boars is one time, all or nothing event.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

If things work out and you can make a pair - I note you mention ‘pigloo’. A pigloo tends for be a one entrance hidey - if that is indeed what you have - then do be aware that such one entrance hideys are not recommended. It’s best if all hides have two doors so no piggy can get trapped inside one by the other, they can be a point of tension.

It’s such a shame if their relationships break down, but just like us, we cant get along with everybody and sometimes fall outs occur.
If you do try one of them with Kip, then do make sure the neutral territory is just a pile of hay, no hides in the bonding pen. Bonding boars is one time, all or nothing event.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

If things work out and you can make a pair - I note you mention ‘pigloo’. A pigloo tends for be a one entrance hidey - if that is indeed what you have - then do be aware that such one entrance hideys are not recommended. It’s best if all hides have two doors so no piggy can get trapped inside one by the other, they can be a point of tension.

That’s a good suggestion actually, I never had issues with pigloos before because Kip and his cagemate Rico got along like a house on fire and each had their own pigloos and had no problems sharing them, Kip has a pigloo, a hay house and a fabric hidey in his bed but if I manage to bond him with either Ollie or Bobby I’ll make sure there’s no way for either of them to corner eachother inside of anything

It’s such a shame if their relationships break down, but just like us, we cant get along with everybody and sometimes fall outs occur.
If you do try one of them with Kip, then do make sure the neutral territory is just a pile of hay, no hides in the bonding pen. Bonding boars is one time, all or nothing event.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

If things work out and you can make a pair - I note you mention ‘pigloo’. A pigloo tends for be a one entrance hidey - if that is indeed what you have - then do be aware that such one entrance hideys are not recommended. It’s best if all hides have two doors so no piggy can get trapped inside one by the other, they can be a point of tension.

That’s a good suggestion actually, I never had issues with pigloos before because Kip and his cagemate Rico got along like a house on fire and each had their own pigloos and had no problems sharing them, Kip has a pigloo, a hay house and a fabric hidey bed in his cage but if I manage to bond him with either Ollie or Bobby I’ll make sure there’s no way for either of them to corner eachother inside of anything

 

[lauryn1289]

That’s a good suggestion actually, I never had issues with pigloos before because Kip and his cagemate Rico got along like a house on fire and each had their own pigloos and had no problems sharing them, Kip has a pigloo, a hay house and a fabric hidey in his bed but if I manage to bond him with either Ollie or Bobby I’ll make sure there’s no way for either of them to corner eachother inside of anything

That’s a good suggestion actually, I never had issues with pigloos before because Kip and his cagemate Rico got along like a house on fire and each had their own pigloos and had no problems sharing them, Kip has a pigloo, a hay house and a fabric hidey bed in his cage but if I manage to bond him with either Ollie or Bobby I’ll make sure there’s no way for either of them to corner eachother inside of anything

Idk how I replied to this three times I’m sorry

 

[lauryn1289]

I have to agree with the advice you’ve been given above. Unfortunately it sounds like they aren’t going to get along. I know how irritating it is. We try our best, but piggies usually have other ideas!

I currently have two bonded pairs, but I do I have a single boar who lives quite happily next to his boar neighbours. I have seen them interact through the bars, and he’s a very happy boy in his own space. He’s so easily bullied, that we never managed to settle him with another boar.

Once piggies have made their minds up, there’s not a lot else we can do. That being said, I had two boars that absolutely despised each other, so I separated them and re-bonded with different boars. Years later, after they had both lost their bonded friends, I re-introduced them and now they get along famously. I think years of being neighbours, and time to mature helped them to become the friends they are now. They even share a bed now, after wanting to kill each other through the bars when they were younger!

Sorry that your boy’s bond didn’t work out. I do hope you can find a happy solution for all of you

Hopefully some time away from eachother and maturing might make them more inclined to re-bond at some point in time

 

[lauryn1289]

@Bradshaw Piggies has neighbourly boars. I also had boar neighbours who were very companionable once they had been separated. I suspect the time is up for Ollie and Bobby though. Esp if Ollie has been trying to get out of the way on top of a pigloo for a while and now he has lashed out. Was Bobby the top boar? Sometimes people separate piggies and the underpig is calm about it but the dominant seems desperate to get through the bars. You have to go by the bullied pig - dominant piggy might just be trying to get in for another go at him. They will even jump bars to start a ruck!

I couldn't tell you what has triggered the fight although there have been one or two posts about fighting boars recently where springtime gets the blood up and their instinct is suddenly to compete for females. If your dominant boy attacks the submissive one that's unpleasant but fair enough. If your submissive boy had suddenly started to bully a previously dominant one it's wise to check that piggy's health. My solid pair of older boys had lived together most of their life but when one started to develop health problems the underpig took his chance and they had to be separated. It's just their nature. They still ate together and hung out together at the bars but as Harvey's health declined it meant he was safe from Casper's pushy ways.

The dominant/submissive dynamic seemed to differ depending on the day! One week Bobby would the top dog and another week Ollie would be, I don’t think either of them ever properly established a proper hierarchy to be honest