Antibiotics side effects

[sophiepineapple]

I took my beloved nutmeg to the vets recently with a swollen front paw, after an examination we decided it was prob arthritis (she's believed to be 6-7yrs old). I went back a week later to get more metacam, but they wanted to see her too.

The other vet discovered an abscess on the side of her face. I think I was so preoccupied with her limping, I missed it. He gave her antibiotics (baytril) but it's effected her gut bacteria and she's stopped pooping or peeing at all today. She was on it for 2 days, at a high dose, but as she was still eating fine, I panicked and stopped the baytril yesterday in the hopes things would get moving again inside her.

She's never drunk water, so I've been trying to syringe it into her mouth, and some tummy care liquid too. Neither particularly successful. She's hardly eating now, but I'm trying to push hay before anything else if she does.

She obviously looks very fed up and uncomfortable. I don't want to stress her out more, but would a warm tummy bath help (she's a very chilled pig)? She has a heat pad for her arthritis anyway.

Other than her arthritis, which is a recent development, she was a happy, healthy girl until she had the dam antibiotics. I feel incredibly guilty to have done this to her.

 

[Truffolo]

Sending support One of the health care experts will be with you soon.

 

[sophiepineapple]

Sending support One of the health care experts will be with you soon.

Thank you xx

 

[Ramia]

I don't think you ever want to stop an antibiotic course because it takes the full course to kill the infection.

You will need to syringe feed.

 

[sophiepineapple]

To be honest I was more panicked about her lack of bowel movements, and she was still happily eating, despite the abscess. If there was a way to get her tummy moving again, I would happily continue with the baytril. But was trying to prioritise x

 

[Ramia]

Poo output is 1-2 days behind. To keep the gut going you need to syringe feed, aiming for 40-60 ml per day.

Have you called your vet?

 

[sophiepineapple]

Poo output is 1-2 days behind. To keep the gut going you need to syringe feed, aiming for 40-60 ml per day.

Have you called your vet?

I've tried critical care, water and tummy care solution via syringe, but she's not having it, even when restrained. Our local vets are closed today (Sunday). And tbh he was pretty rubbish anyway, we don't have a local specialist in small animals, so he didn't know about the gut effects of antibiotics, as I've had pigs with them before.
I wondered if gently running her tummy may help, or if it has to be some sort of internal medication? X

 

[Ramia]

Have you tried critical care in a dish?

An expert will be along soon.

 

[sophiepineapple]

Have you tried critical care in a dish?

An expert will be along soon.

I have, she's not interested sadly. Currently feeding individual pieces of hay to her as she's snuggled on my lap. X

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Please step in with syringe feeding - I appreciate it can be hard work but it is imperative she is syringe fed if she is not eating enough hay for herself.
You do not want her gut slowing down at all - to correct it a gut stimulating medication is needed.
You also need to switch to daily weight checks to monitor feed intake and ensure she is getting enough to keep her weight stable each day.

Poop output is 1-2 days behind food intake so is an unreliable gauge of food intake.

Please never stop an antibiotic course without vet advice. It can lead to the bacteria taking hold and making treating any infection harder.
In an extreme reaction to antibiotic, stopping/switching to a different one may be advised but it should only be done under vet supervision.

We recommend a probiotic is given when a piggy is on antibiotics as it can help settle the digestion. This is not a medication so will not necessarily be recommended by a vet

Please do call your vet. As you are in the UK, all vets have 24 hour cover service provided so call your normal practice number and their voicemail should give details of who covers them so you can get her seen in any emergency today.

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

 

[Truffolo]

I think getting even a ml of Critical Care down starts to open a gap which improves survival. It's a round the clock session. Even if it's just a mouthful, it helps. I'm not sure exactly which other meds would be co administered but the mods will know and you could ask the vet or another vet in the practice who might know more about guinea pigs for these meds. I think there are meds that help to restart the gut and then probiotics which might help.

 

[sophiepineapple]

I’m sorry to hear this.

Please step in with syringe feeding - I appreciate it can be hard work but it is imperative she is syringe fed if she is not eating enough hay for herself.
You do not want her gut slowing down at all - to correct it a gut stimulating medication is needed.
You also need to switch to daily weight checks to monitor feed intake and ensure she is getting enough to keep her weight stable each day.

Poop output is 1-2 days behind food intake so is an unreliable gauge is food intake.

Please never stop an antibiotic course without vet advice. It can lead to the bacteria taking hold and making treating any infection harder.
In an extreme reaction to antibiotic, stopping/switching to a different one may be advised but it should only be done under vet supervision.

We recommend a probiotic is given when a piggy is on antibiotics as it can help settle the digestion. This is not a medication so will not necessarily be recommended by a vet

Please do call your vet. As you are in the UK, all vets have 24 hour cover service provided so call your normal practice number and their voicemail should give details of who covers them so you can get her seen in any emergency today.

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Thank you. I've got critical care mixed and have just managed to get a syringe full (mostly) into her mouth. She's done a few very squishy poops but no wee by the looks of it, there's some gurgling noises coming from her tum. She's been on a light coloured soft blanket all afternoon on my lap so I can keep an eye on what's happening. I will check the 24 HR vet thing now. Thank you. X

 

[Truffolo]

Digestive side effects to antibiotics are very common in guinea pigs so it's very frequent for vets to have to see their patients again for extra medication, so don't hesitate to go back and let the vet know there is a problem that is urgent. Good luck, I hope things turn out OK

 

[Truffolo]

Thank you. I've got critical care mixed and have just managed to get a syringe full (mostly) into her mouth. She's done a few very squishy poops but no wee by the looks of it, there's some gurgling noises coming from her tum. She's been on a light coloured soft blanket all afternoon on my lap so I can keep an eye on what's happening. I will check the 24 HR vet thing now. Thank you. X

It's a pleasure

 

[sophiepineapple]

Digestive side effects to antibiotics are very common in guinea pigs so it's very frequent for vets to have to see their patients again for extra medication, so don't hesitate to go back and let the vet know there is a problem that is urgent. Good luck, I hope things turn out OK

Thank youm sadly this vet is pretty useless with guinea pigs it seems. X

 

[Piggies&buns]

Keep going with the syringe feed - as much as she will take at a time.
You are aiming for 60ml in each 24 hour period but really its however much is necessary to keep her weight stable when you weigh her every morning (if she lost weight from the day before then she needs to be fed more the coming day).

Look to get a probiotic - Fibreplex is the one I choose but not all piggies will take it (it can be mixed in with a bit of critical care though).
It won’t replace any gut stimulants that may be needed, but it can help.

Better still (and alongside a commercial probiotic), if you have another healthy piggy then you can make poop soup from the very fresh poops of the companion. That is live microbiome transfer and can really help settle the gut depleted by antibiotics

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe
Wiebke's Guide to Poops

 

[sophiepineapple]

Keep going with the syringe feed - as much as she will take at a time.
You are aiming for 60ml in each 24 hour period but really its however much is necessary to keep her weight stable when you weigh her every morning (if she lost weight from the day before then she needs to be fed more the coming day).

Look to get a probiotic - Fibreplex is the one I choose but not all piggies will take it (it can be mixed in with a bit of critical care though).
It won’t replace any gut stimulants that may be needed, but it can help.

Better still (and alongside a commercial probiotic), if you have another healthy piggy then you can make poop soup from the very fresh poops of the companion. That is live microbiome transfer and can really help settle the gut depleted by antibiotics

Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe
Wiebke's Guide to Poops

Thank you, sadly she lost her friend at Christmas, so she's been living inside with us as a lone (very spoilt) lady. I've used fibre Plex on a previous pig. I have a solution to mix with water at the moment, called tummy care I believe, but she refused that. I'll try again until I can get the fibre Plex, likely tomorrow now as everything closes at 4 today I think. Thank you x

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry for your loss

I’ve never heard of a probiotic called tummy care, so I can’t comment on it.

 

[sophiepineapple]

I’m sorry for your loss

I’ve never heard of a probiotic called tummy care, so I can’t comment on it.

Thank you. It's a liquid by beaphar. Not a replacement for the others, but maybe better than nothing at the moment. She's just had a tiny wee.
X

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you. I've got critical care mixed and have just managed to get a syringe full (mostly) into her mouth. She's done a few very squishy poops but no wee by the looks of it, there's some gurgling noises coming from her tum. She's been on a light coloured soft blanket all afternoon on my lap so I can keep an eye on what's happening. I will check the 24 HR vet thing now. Thank you. X

Hi

I am very sorry that your piggy is one of the ones in which the digestive gut bacteria are also affected by an antibiotic. Please keep in mind that this only affects a minority of guinea pigs, or any licence for an official antibiotic would be withdrawn.

Please try to get at least 40 ml of feed (water not included) into your girl in 24 hours - this is the minimum survival amount. 60 ml would be better. Unfortunately, your piggy needs to keep getting fibrous feed to replace the hay/grass fibre that is making over three quarters of the daily food intake, which in a healthy adult makes between 90-120 ml.

We all sympathise with you; it is tough when you are faced with full-on feeding an uncooperative piggy the first time. Most of us have been there as well at some point or other, including me. Please be aware that your own apprehension, insecurity and stress does transmit to your piggy quite a lot. Try to calm yourself down and try to find your inner core and balance, and draw your determination from there. You need to be tough. The time for being nice is afterwards.

Please take a look at the pictures and videos in our medication guide. We have a whole chapter with tips and tricks on how to deal with uncooperative piggies. Be firm but full of praise for every little that goes in; sympathise but also gently chivvy on; it is the tone of your voice that your piggy picks up on, not the actual words. Positive feedback helps.
Unfortunately, there is no easy way around it. It usually gets better with practice.

Please take the time to read the helpful green links in this thread. We cannot type out all the details every time, seeing that we all do this for free in our own time.

 

[sophiepineapple]

Hi

I am very sorry that your piggy is one of the ones in which the digestive gut bacteria are also affected by an antibiotic. Please keep in mind that this only affects a minority of guinea pigs, or any licence for an official antibiotic would be withdrawn.

Please try to get at least 40 ml of feed (water not included) into your girl in 24 hours - this is the minimum survival amount. 60 ml would be better. Unfortunately, your piggy needs to keep getting fibrous feed to replace the hay/grass fibre that is making over three quarters of the daily food intake, which in a healthy adult makes between 90-120 ml.

We all sympathise with you; it is tough when you are faced with full-on feeding an uncooperative piggy the first time. Most of us have been there as well at some point or other, including me. Please be aware that your own apprehension, insecurity and stress does transmit to your piggy quite a lot. Try to calm yourself down and try to find your inner core and balance, and draw your determination from there. You need to be tough. The time for being nice is afterwards.

Please take a look at the pictures and videos in our medication guide. We have a whole chapter with tips and tricks on how to deal with uncooperative piggies. Be firm but full of praise for every little that goes in; sympathise but also gently chivvy on; it is the tone of your voice that your piggy picks up on, not the actual words. Positive feedback helps.
Unfortunately, there is no easy way around it. It usually gets better with practice.

Please take the time to read the helpful green links in this thread. We cannot type out all the details every time, seeing that we all do this for free in our own time.

Thank you so much. I've managed to get about 20ml into her so far. It's about 7 years since I've had to do this, when sadly one of my previous boys had gut issues after surgery. I kept the syringe thankfully. The critical care I have is mixed with water, a different sort to the last green gloop I used, but I've followed the instructions. Thank you. She's a very good piggy and is reluctantly letting me get more into her, or licking it from my hand too x

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much. I've managed to get about 20ml into her so far. It's about 7 years since I've had to do this, when sadly one of my previous boys had gut issues after surgery. I kept the syringe thankfully. The critical care I have is mixed with water, a different sort to the last green gloop I used, but I've followed the instructions. Thank you. She's a very good piggy and is reluctantly letting me get more into her, or licking it from my hand too x

Just keep plugging away. Try every 23 hours a day, as much as you can get into her in one go. Aim for as close to 10 ml as you can get but try to get at least 5 ml in per session. Offer a little plain water via syringe in between about every 3 syringefuls of feed to help wash the drying cud in the mouth down and free up the mouth.

Do the last session before you go to bed but make sure that you get ideally 6 hours off for sleeping - you can't provide longer term feeding care without looking after yourself and avoiding to exhaust yourself totally. Get up in the middle of the night only if you wake up naturally or if your piggy is very poorly. In the latter case, you can bring her with you in a carrier in her cosy into your bedroom, so you can look after her more easily.

Then weigh her on your kitchen scales first thing in the morning before you start feeding. Try to get two feeds into her before you go to work (ideally 10-20 ml) to keep her going during the day.

Give the meds after the feed so they arrive in a bolstered tummy but don't mix them with your feed. Tips on how to get bad tasting meds (like baytril and other antibiotics) can be found in the medicating guide.

 

[sophiepineapple]

Just keep plugging away. Try every 23 hours a day, as much as you can get into her in one go. Aim for as close to 10 ml as you can get but try to get at least 5 ml in per session. Offer a little plain water via syringe in between about every 3 syringefuls of feed to help wash the drying cud in the mouth down and free up the mouth.

Do the last session before you go to bed but make sure that you get ideally 6 hours off for sleeping - you can't provide longer term feeding care without looking after yourself and avoiding to exhaust yourself totally. Get up in the middle of the night only if you wake up naturally or if your piggy is very poorly. In the latter case, you can bring her with you in a carrier in her cosy into your bedroom, so you can look after her more easily.

Then weigh her on your kitchen scales first thing in the morning before you start feeding. Try to get two feeds into her before you go to work (ideally 10-20 ml) to keep her going during the day.

Give the meds after the feed so they arrive in a bolstered tummy but don't mix them with your feed. Tips on how to get bad tasting meds (like baytril and other antibiotics) can be found in the medicating guide.

Just keep plugging away. Try every 23 hours a day, as much as you can get into her in one go. Aim for as close to 10 ml as you can get but try to get at least 5 ml in per session. Offer a little plain water via syringe in between about every 3 syringefuls of feed to help wash the drying cud in the mouth down and free up the mouth.

Do the last session before you go to bed but make sure that you get ideally 6 hours off for sleeping - you can't provide longer term feeding care without looking after yourself and avoiding to exhaust yourself totally. Get up in the middle of the night only if you wake up naturally or if your piggy is very poorly. In the latter case, you can bring her with you in a carrier in her cosy into your bedroom, so you can look after her more easily.

Then weigh her on your kitchen scales first thing in the morning before you start feeding. Try to get two feeds into her before you go to work (ideally 10-20 ml) to keep her going during the day.

Give the meds after the feed so they arrive in a bolstered tummy but don't mix them with your feed. Tips on how to get bad tasting meds (like baytril and other antibiotics) can be found in the medicating guide.

Thank you so much. It's the begining of my little boys Easter holidays tomorrow, so I won't be working anyway. I've weighed her today, and will sleep on the sofa next to her tonight.

I haven't given the baytril today as I panicked when her tummy stopped working. Shall I carry on again with it? She loves the metacam, but the baytril obviously doesn't taste as good to piggys. Thank you x

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much. It's the begining of my little boys Easter holidays tomorrow, so I won't be working anyway. I've weighed her today, and will sleep on the sofa next to her tonight.

I haven't given the baytril today as I panicked when her tummy stopped working. Shall I carry on again with it? She loves the metacam, but the baytril obviously doesn't taste as good to piggys. Thank you x

Please carry on with the baytril. Never stop without your vet's ok. You can always give the clinic a call if you have a problem with the medication.

Baytril is about the worst tasting medication there is. Please don't try it yourself; even a very little can make a human very ill. Get the dose in, follow with water to wash the taste away and then end with something nice tasting like a little fresh herb/grass or dandelian leaf (please dog-pee free and unsprayed). Don't mix water or ribena with the baytril, it makes it only double the amount to armwrestle into her. Guinea pigs have double the amount of tastebuds to humans, so they can still taste the baytril. It is easiest given in one fell swoop and then folowed up with increasingly nicer things that ideally don't come with traces of baytril lingering in the mouth; hence the flushing the mouth before the treat.

You will get there. The calmer you are, the better as your girl will pick up on it. Just don't expect cooperation but ideally not a massive wiggle fight.

 

[sophiepineapple]

Please carry on with the baytril. Never stop without your vet's ok. You can always give the clinic a call if you have a problem with the medication.

Baytril is about the worst tasting medication there is. Please don't try it yourself; even a very little can make a human very ill. Get the dose in, follow with water to wash the taste away and then end with something nice tasting like a little fresh herb/grass or dandelian leaf (please dog-pee free and unsprayed). Don't mix water or ribena with the baytril, it makes it only double the amount to armwrestle into her. Guinea pigs have double the amount of tastebuds to humans, so they can still taste the baytril. It is easiest given in one fell swoop and then folowed up with increasingly nicer things that ideally don't come with traces of baytril lingering in the mouth; hence the flushing the mouth before the treat.

Thank you so much for the tip. She has fresh leaves just for her in our back garden, so will use those and give it to her now. X

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for the tip. She has fresh leaves just for her in our back garden, so will use those and give it to her now. X

Use them as a special treat after her baytril so she will learn that there is something nice coming afterwards.

 

[Wiebke]

If you have concerns, then you can contact your vet. Fluid can build up in the lungs or in the chest cavity but it doesn't usually do in both places, as one of the most experienced guinea pig vets in the UK once explained to me.

I am sure that your vet has checked the heart routinely but you can always ask. Diagnosing heart problems can be a lot trickier than you may think.