Antibiotic support (piggy with suspected URI)

[boz]

Hi folks.

Bianca was at the out of hours vets on Sunday after she started to present with congested sounding breathing. Vet gave a shot of baytril and sent us home with a bottle to start twice daily doses of 2ml the today. I started her on fibreplex straight away as I have had experience with antibiotics slowing gut action down previously when treating my boys for UTIs in the past.
Today though I’m already seeing smaller poos and we are only at the very start of her course. I really don’t want to end up with bloat too. She’s eating hay and veggies normally and wheeking for food, but maybe eating slightly reduced amounts of her pellets.
Should I be taking any other action? Our vets are not really piggy savvy, but I’m based on a remote Island so they are my only option sadly.
Should I ask for something to help with gut motility (I don’t want her to get soft poops either!) or maybe supplement a little critical care?
She hates being syringed, so if I do this it’s going to be force feeding and I don’t want her getting too stressed out. She is not a young piggy…. Her breathing sounds have already improved, so that is positive, but I don’t want to replace one problem with another!

 

[Free Ranger]

OK - so did you mean 2ml or 0.2ml there - and if 2 ml perhaps you can read the concentration from the bottle? Getting 2ml of bitter baytril down a piggy seems an almost impossible challenge! How many days is the AB for?

Poops run a day or two behind so it's possible you are starting to see evidence that her eating was already affected before the antibiotics. If the baytril is going to work it should start making her feel better within a day or two so her appetite should be picking up again. However there's no harm in a belt and braces approach and in your shoes I would actually start to syringe when I saw the smaller poops... not aiming for the 60ml+ that a piggy that isn't eating at all might need though. She's likely to be/have been eating less hay which is quite tricky to monitor accurately. Perhaps you can start to weigh her each morning to make sure she's maintaining weight and not losing day on day (bear in mind there will be some ups and downs). This can help guide you in terms of amount. Also healthy pigs tend to love syringe food so hopefully her keenness will pick up as she feels more like herself! I'm currently syringing one of mine using a 1ml syringe with the tip cut off - that way I'm not overloading him. I also have little shreds of green leafy things (lettuce etc) ready so every time he gets a gobfull he looks for his treat afterwards... I'm surprised I'd not thought of this with previous pigs because for George it's working quite well!

Syringing extra fibre will also help guard against bloat because without it there is a risk that the veggie portion of her diet will become a bit much for her guts. If she still has appetite and is eating hay on her own and maintaining her weight and pooping well (even if they are smaller) I personally wouldn't be too worried about the gut motility drugs. I might think about painkiller like metacam or loxixom if I was worried she was in any discomfort as that can put them off eating - but perhaps the vet is just waiting to see how she goes.

She sounds a much loved older girl

 

[boz]

OK - so did you mean 2ml or 0.2ml there - and if 2 ml perhaps you can read the concentration from the bottle? Getting 2ml of bitter baytril down a piggy seems an almost impossible challenge! How many days is the AB for?

Poops run a day or two behind so it's possible you are starting to see evidence that her eating was already affected before the antibiotics. If the baytril is going to work it should start making her feel better within a day or two so her appetite should be picking up again. However there's no harm in a belt and braces approach and in your shoes I would actually start to syringe when I saw the smaller poops... not aiming for the 60ml+ that a piggy that isn't eating at all might need though. She's likely to be/have been eating less hay which is quite tricky to monitor accurately. Perhaps you can start to weigh her each morning to make sure she's maintaining weight and not losing day on day (bear in mind there will be some ups and downs). This can help guide you in terms of amount. Also healthy pigs tend to love syringe food so hopefully her keenness will pick up as she feels more like herself! I'm currently syringing one of mine using a 1ml syringe with the tip cut off - that way I'm not overloading him. I also have little shreds of green leafy things (lettuce etc) ready so every time he gets a gobfull he looks for his treat afterwards... I'm surprised I'd not thought of this with previous pigs because for George it's working quite well!

Syringing extra fibre will also help guard against bloat because without it there is a risk that the veggie portion of her diet will become a bit much for her guts. If she still has appetite and is eating hay on her own and maintaining her weight and pooping well (even if they are smaller) I personally wouldn't be too worried about the gut motility drugs. I might think about painkiller like metacam or loxixom if I was worried she was in any discomfort as that can put them off eating - but perhaps the vet is just waiting to see how she goes.

She sounds a much loved older girl

Oh heck, yes, 0.2, not 2. That would be a lot! Course is 7 days, but I expect I might need to ask for more by the end of the week - I don’t want this to linger

Weight is good so far but am keeping an eye. I think I have maybe been giving the fibreplex too close to the antibiotic too, so I will tweak that and perhaps give a small syringe feed before I put the antibiotic in to make sure it’s not going in on an empty belly (not that I think her belly is ever empty!). She is not a cuddly pig, so any handling offends her hugely (I rehomed her and her sister last year as senior pigs whose owner found them a bit too much, I don’t think they were handled often) so unless we get real issues I want to avoid the 3 hourly syringe feeding regime! I have metacam on standby, but she doesn’t seem sore that I can tell. Just intermittently raspy ( worse when she is mad, or sleeping it seems)

 

[Wiebke]

Hi folks.

Bianca was at the out of hours vets on Sunday after she started to present with congested sounding breathing. Vet gave a shot of baytril and sent us home with a bottle to start twice daily doses of 2ml the today. I started her on fibreplex straight away as I have had experience with antibiotics slowing gut action down previously when treating my boys for UTIs in the past.
Today though I’m already seeing smaller poos and we are only at the very start of her course. I really don’t want to end up with bloat too. She’s eating hay and veggies normally and wheeking for food, but maybe eating slightly reduced amounts of her pellets.
Should I be taking any other action? Our vets are not really piggy savvy, but I’m based on a remote Island so they are my only option sadly.
Should I ask for something to help with gut motility (I don’t want her to get soft poops either!) or maybe supplement a little critical care?
She hates being syringed, so if I do this it’s going to be force feeding and I don’t want her getting too stressed out. She is not a young piggy…. Her breathing sounds have already improved, so that is positive, but I don’t want to replace one problem with another!

Hi
Baytril is not causing bloat but it can impact on the gut microbiome and cause diminished appetite or even loss of appetite. This in combination with the need to breathe coming before the need to drink and only thirdly the need to eat means that piggies respiratory illnesses are particularly prone to loss of appetite. Please also keep in mind that the poo output runs at least a day behind the input.

Please step in with feeding support (I do not like the expression force feeding because it gives a misleading image and can lead to aspiration of food into the lungs). It is tough but you need to tough it out because an untreated or undertreated respiratory infection can cause some serious issues down the line.
If you have access to a probiotic, then please mix into the syringe feed or give either 1 hour before the antibiotic (US recommendation or 2 hours after it (UK recommendation) - all three variants work about equally well. If you have a healthy companion not on medication, live microbiome transfer done properly can be even more effective (see our 'poo soup' recipe in the first aid kit. These measures are there to help mitigate the impact on the digestive gut microbiome.
First Aid Kit: Easily available non-medication support products for an emergency

You may find our new medicating and syringe feeding support guide with videos and lots of helpful little tips and practical information useful: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Please also conduct the full course of antibiotics and don't be tempted to stop as soon as symptoms disappear.
Antibiotics build up in the body over a number of days until optimal efficiency and then peter out gradually again. Stopped treatment will contribute to the promotion of resistance issues.

All the best!

 

[boz]

Hi
Baytril is not causing bloat but it can impact on the gut microbiome and cause diminished appetite or even loss of appetite. This in combination with the need to breathe coming before the need to drink and only thirdly the need to eat means that piggies respiratory illnesses are particularly prone to loss of appetite. Please also keep in mind that the poo output runs at least a day behind the input.

Please step in with feeding support (I do not like the expression force feeding because it gives a misleading image and can lead to aspiration of food into the lungs). It is tough but you need to tough it out because an untreated or undertreated respiratory infection can cause some serious issues down the line.
If you have access to a probiotic, then please mix into the syringe feed or give either 1 hour before the antibiotic (US recommendation or 2 hours after it (UK recommendation) - all three variants work about equally well. If you have a healthy companion not on medication, live microbiome transfer done properly can be even more effective (see our 'poo soup' recipe in the first aid kit. These measures are there to help mitigate the impact on the digestive gut microbiome.
First Aid Kit: Easily available non-medication support products for an emergency

You may find our new medicating and syringe feeding support guide with videos and lots of helpful little tips and practical information useful: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Please also conduct the full course of antibiotics and don't be tempted to stop as soon as symptoms disappear.
Antibiotics build up in the body over a number of days until optimal efficiency and then peter out gradually again. Stopped treatment will contribute to the promotion of resistance issues.

All the best!

Thanks! Yes, when I say bloat I mean more the consequences of her gut being out of whack possibly leading to that, rather than the antibiotic causing it - I’ve found in previous piggies it has really upset their gut towards the end of the course, and I was a bit concerned at how early I was seeing this. I wouldn’t dream of stopping antibiotics unless under veterinary advice.

I’m an old hand at syringe feeding, so I’ve started that up twice a day with her- apologies if you dislike the term force feeding - what I mean is she does not directly take the syringe like some piggies will, she is very unhappy about being held and will wiggle away from it, so I have to support behind her head and insert from the side to give it to her in increments. I don’t think it’s a nice experience for her, but I’ve done it before and I’ll increase the quantity if she seems to need it. I’m just hoping to avoid doing it every 3 hours as I have with pigs that were not eating at all by themselves.

I started her on fibreplex probiotic as soon as she went on the antibiotics, but as I said above, I think I was giving them too close to the meds, so I’ve shifted that to an hour after she has them, and I’m giving around 6ml of critical care fine grind alongside each dose to supplement.

She’s still eating well - pellets all gone today and I’ve seen her munching hay at regular intervals. Poops look a better size too, so I’m happy with that. Currently no noise with her breathing, but I did hear a few snuffles earlier when she was asleep.

Fingers crossed I caught it early enough - she was at the vets within hours of me first noticing symptoms, and so far she is still her regular weight (I’m weighing daily instead of weekly just to monitor that though). I’ve also scrapped my old hay and started a fresh box as it was the end of my batch and didn’t smell as fresh as it could - don’t want anything to aggravate it further.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks! Yes, when I say bloat I mean more the consequences of her gut being out of whack possibly leading to that, rather than the antibiotic causing it - I’ve found in previous piggies it has really upset their gut towards the end of the course, and I was a bit concerned at how early I was seeing this. I wouldn’t dream of stopping antibiotics unless under veterinary advice.

I’m an old hand at syringe feeding, so I’ve started that up twice a day with her- apologies if you dislike the term force feeding - what I mean is she does not directly take the syringe like some piggies will, she is very unhappy about being held and will wiggle away from it, so I have to support behind her head and insert from the side to give it to her in increments. I don’t think it’s a nice experience for her, but I’ve done it before and I’ll increase the quantity if she seems to need it. I’m just hoping to avoid doing it every 3 hours as I have with pigs that were not eating at all by themselves.

I started her on fibreplex probiotic as soon as she went on the antibiotics, but as I said above, I think I was giving them too close to the meds, so I’ve shifted that to an hour after she has them, and I’m giving around 6ml of critical care fine grind alongside each dose to supplement.

She’s still eating well - pellets all gone today and I’ve seen her munching hay at regular intervals. Poops look a better size too, so I’m happy with that. Currently no noise with her breathing, but I did hear a few snuffles earlier when she was asleep.

Fingers crossed I caught it early enough - she was at the vets within hours of me first noticing symptoms, and so far she is still her regular weight (I’m weighing daily instead of weekly just to monitor that though). I’ve also scrapped my old hay and started a fresh box as it was the end of my batch and didn’t smell as fresh as it could - don’t want anything to aggravate it further.

All the best! It is always tough when a piggy is off their appetite but at least your case doesn't sound too bad.

 

[Free Ranger]

Ooh it sounds like positive news
I hope she appreciates you!

 

[boz]

Ooh it sounds like positive news
I hope she appreciates you!

Oh I can assure you she does not She is an angry little Madame at the moment. This is almost as bad as when I have the gall to brush her butt hair. Almost…