Aggressive Sow Issue

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Blossom15

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image.webp I have two pairs of guinea pigs who I've been introducing for about two weeks now. In one of the pairs who are two year olds I have one very dominant, not particularly social sow, Rocky. With her cagemate she's always been very bossy; biting if she gets in the way, snatching food off her and teeth chattering/rumble strutting occasionally. Blaze on the other hand is very shy and doesn't seem to mind being kicked around, however if we leave her without another guinea pigs she wheeks so loud! Rocky isn't at all phased when left alone and will just carry on eating or go to sleep.

Anyway this was one of the reasons for getting two more (along with many other reasons :) ). Blaze loves the new pigs. She looks very happy and much more confident after spending exercise time with them. Rocky however gets very grumpy with them and chases them - I can't really see if she just nips or bites them but they let out a large squeal and then sit there whimpering and panting. This happens every time they get near each other and now the newbies are terrified of her and run when Rocky gets within a metre of them. I just need some advice as I feel sorry for Blaze who has to put up with it half the time! Thanks
 
When you say "introducing for two weeks" do you mean that you've been doing introductions and then taking them away from each other? As far as I understand once you've put them together they have to be left together (unless of course there's an outright fight) every time you split them up again the process starts again and the hierarchic has to be establish every time they're put back together.

I'm not an expert on bonding, I've recently bonded my older guinea pig with a baby guinea pig, and there were a few lunges but never any actual physical bites or cuts made and its now all settled down and the hierarch has been made. It probably isn't helping that every time your introducing and establishing it your then breaking them apart again into separate groups so every time they're back together the ones that are lower in line are getting stressed out by the rebuilding of the bonds again, if that makes sense? I would try and reintroduce them and leaving them together for more than a couple of hours, of course if they're are literal fights and blood drawn then separate, but the loud squealing is just there way of saying "okay I admit defeat" although it sounds brutal its normally fine.
 
When you say "introducing for two weeks" do you mean that you've been doing introductions and then taking them away from each other? As far as I understand once you've put them together they have to be left together (unless of course there's an outright fight) every time you split them up again the process starts again and the hierarchic has to be establish every time they're put back together.

I'm not an expert on bonding, I've recently bonded my older guinea pig with a baby guinea pig, and there were a few lunges but never any actual physical bites or cuts made and its now all settled down and the hierarch has been made. It probably isn't helping that every time your introducing and establishing it your then breaking them apart again into separate groups so every time they're back together the ones that are lower in line are getting stressed out by the rebuilding of the bonds again, if that makes sense? I would try and reintroduce them and leaving them together for more than a couple of hours, of course if they're are literal fights and blood drawn then separate, but the loud squealing is just there way of saying "okay I admit defeat" although it sounds brutal its normally fine.
Okay thanks I didn't know about the leaving them together. I was told to do it bit by bit a couple of hours a day - so for the last two weeks I've put them all on neutral territory for a couple hours but they never have a proper meeting as the new pigs just stay on the other side of the cage until Rocky comes over who will then chase them round for a bit until she distracted. I don't want to leave them together over night as they still haven't settled down and I know rocky can give nasty bites as Blazes ears are all joggers and bitten up.

Wandering if it would be better to keep Blaze, Blossom and Hazel as a three and maybe adopt a neutered boar for Rocky as shed find it harder to pick on a male? But maybe I should be leaving them together longer like you said.
 
I remember when I re-introduced my girls after two years a part. Wilma was vile. Poor Pebbles couldn't move, Wilma would run and nip her bum. It got to the stage that Pebbles would squeal even before Wilma made a nip in anticipation. This settled within a night or so and the girls where best friends again. Wilma was just establishing top sow position.
 
Okay thanks I didn't know about the leaving them together. I was told to do it bit by bit a couple of hours a day - so for the last two weeks I've put them all on neutral territory for a couple hours but they never have a proper meeting as the new pigs just stay on the other side of the cage until Rocky comes over who will then chase them round for a bit until she distracted. I don't want to leave them together over night as they still haven't settled down and I know rocky can give nasty bites as Blazes ears are all joggers and bitten up.

Wandering if it would be better to keep Blaze, Blossom and Hazel as a three and maybe adopt a neutered boar for Rocky as shed find it harder to pick on a male? But maybe I should be leaving them together longer like you said.

Yeah the problem with breaking them up every time is that it breaks the bond..especially if its over night, so every time your putting them together again its basically starting from the beginning with the dominant behaviors and hierarchic. I know its scary leaving them together, but the running, chasing is natural and all part of them establishing dominance and there place within the group.
How long have you had your new pigs for? just two weeks?
Also, have you had Rocky checked for ovarian cysts? I believe aggressive behavior can be causes by cysts sometimes.

If you are thinking of doing that, and keeping Rocky with a neutered boar I would suggest boar dating as she may be exactly the same with a boar, It all depends on the boar and her really.

*edit, when you place them into the cage together make sure all the bedding is fresh and new
 
I agree, we've bonded three pairs of boars and have never separated when they've gotten on, they have always gone in a cleaned out cage with washed bedding, bowls etc.
 
I remember when I re-introduced my girls after two years a part. Wilma was vile. Poor Pebbles couldn't move, Wilma would run and nip her bum. It got to the stage that Pebbles would squeal even before Wilma made a nip in anticipation. This settled within a night or so and the girls where best friends again. Wilma was just establishing top sow position.
Yeah I guess it's because I separate again each day so rocky feels she has to remind them who's in charge!
 
Yeah the problem with breaking them up every time is that it breaks the bond..especially if its over night, so every time your putting them together again its basically starting from the beginning with the dominant behaviors and hierarchic. I know its scary leaving them together, but the running, chasing is natural and all part of them establishing dominance and there place within the group.
How long have you had your new pigs for? just two weeks?
Also, have you had Rocky checked for ovarian cysts? I believe aggressive behavior can be causes by cysts sometimes.

If you are thinking of doing that, and keeping Rocky with a neutered boar I would suggest boar dating as she may be exactly the same with a boar, It all depends on the boar and her really.

*edit, when you place them into the cage together make sure all the bedding is fresh and new
I'll try moving them in together when it's time for their next full clean in a few days (did one on Tuesday). I've had the 3 month olds for around a month but they had URIs so waited obviously before introducing. I haven't had Rocky checked, no, but will do if her behaviour doesn't change to be in the safe side but she's been like this since I first got her - she's just not fussed about being friends will fellow piggies!
 
I think perhaps the hormonal factor comes in to play when sows are concered .

Boars are often an open book when it comes to bonding, but sows seem to reright the book :hb:
 
I'll try moving them in together when it's time for their next full clean in a few days (did one on Tuesday). I've had the 3 month olds for around a month but they had URIs so waited obviously before introducing. I haven't had Rocky checked, no, but will do if her behaviour doesn't change to be in the safe side but she's been like this since I first got her - she's just not fussed about being friends will fellow piggies!

Maybe she's just like that then. However, I would try again, So reintroduce on mutual ground (in there run or wherever they have run time) leave them for a few hours, some people say wait until they've had a sleep and then woken up and then move them back into the cage together, mine didn't sleep but after two hours I just added them back in together in the cage anyway. There is going to be squeals and squeaks, and mounting and burring and perhaps lunges. Its important you don't intervene until its 100% necessary, so if there is a full on fight, or if there is any blood drawn. It might sound like a blood bath, but unless it actually is, you just need to let them be. After that time then add them back into the cage and see how it goes.

Also, make sure there's a bed for everyone so there's no fighting. And in the introduction make sure that everything you put in has two exists :) You probably know all this but just in case!

Good luck! :D
 
:hb:There are that many resapies for pig bonding , by the time the keepes finished he,she a good nights sleep to recover from the ordeal :hb:
But the pigs dont seem to care :lol!:
 
Ypu may find these threads here helpful in judging whether the dominance bonding is going overboard or not. Not all sows are happy with additions to their group.
If things really don't settle down, I would consider finding an alternative solution for Rocky, like living alongside of the other group, so she has her own territory, but still gets interaction and stimulation through the bars.
Sow behaviour
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
She could just be one hell of a bossy pig! I have one like that, Jemima, got her when she was 6 weeks old and she was mothered by Bea so took place as 3rd in line behind Bea and Peter (but above Bumble). Since Bea passed away in January her bossy side has really come out, even during veg time if I so much as move something in the cage she has to run over eat/drink some, lick it, sniff it whatever! Just to show she was there first and its hers. I tried to introduce a new shy pig in April and after a few weeks it all went wrong with Jemima and Issy had a bite to the mouth so now I have two pairs. Jemima really tries to boss me around too, I've never seen a pig with such "little man syndrome"
 
She could just be one hell of a bossy pig! I have one like that, Jemima, got her when she was 6 weeks old and she was mothered by Bea so took place as 3rd in line behind Bea and Peter (but above Bumble). Since Bea passed away in January her bossy side has really come out, even during veg time if I so much as move something in the cage she has to run over eat/drink some, lick it, sniff it whatever! Just to show she was there first and its hers. I tried to introduce a new shy pig in April and after a few weeks it all went wrong with Jemima and Issy had a bite to the mouth so now I have two pairs. Jemima really tries to boss me around too, I've never seen a pig with such "little man syndrome"
So do you keep Jemima with Peter now? If so what is she like with him? Just wandering if mine would be better with a male.
 
So do you keep Jemima with Peter now? If so what is she like with him? Just wandering if mine would be better with a male.

She is fine with Peter but he is mellow and a good 2-3 years older. She has been with him since she was 6 weeks old so don't know if that makes a difference at all. She was ok with Bumble as well (far from best friends but they tolerated each other) but again had been with her since Jemima was 6 weeks old.

If you are considering another pig to try and settle her you could see if any local rescues offer dating and can give you a hand with bonding so you can try and find a good female or neutered male match for her.
 
yup they are well and truly bonded ,

my next task , the sow from hell ,
she is a sow as yet without a name , and her mission seems to be to get stroppy with any pig that comes near her
she is a plesant sow when she is by her self, but put her on the floor with any other pig and she is a right little madom :gd:
 
yup they are well and truly bonded ,

my next task , the sow from hell ,
she is a sow as yet without a name , and her mission seems to be to get stroppy with any pig that comes near her
she is a plesant sow when she is by her self, but put her on the floor with any other pig and she is a right little madom :gd:

Give her some time to work past any fear-aggression; I find that single/bereaved sows that never had to interact much with other piggies having been alone or bonded from a very young age can hide their fear behind some pretty agressive behaviour. It's not easy, but if you can find the right setting/company for them, they mellow instantly (Tegyd was the most aggressive of mine, but Mali, another cataract sow, took also all my experience and master diplomat Terfel's full diplay of his formidable abilities to integrate into the cataract group with Tegyd and Taffy). If you have got a way of letting her live along some others for a while first?
A very few guinea pigs that have been on their own from a very young age have lost the ability to perceive themselves as guinea pigs and will only interact with humans.

PS: Why not call her "Hilda"? This means "battle" in Nordic names. ;)
 
I've put them all together this evening. The youngsters still look petrified but still eating. Rocky has chased them a few times but then calmed down. Just went back up and one of the 4 months old was sat on the hay rack with Rocky underneath but she ran back to her corner so I don't know if she was doing anything to Blossom however it's probably quite likely! Very stressful but I guess they just need to be left. Hard to see the small ones looking so nervous though!
 
Just thought I'd post to say your methods were successful and all four are happily snuggling up and all is peaceful - including Rocky. Thanks everyone!

image.webp
Oh and please note this pet store cage is attached to a hutch not just on its own! :)
 
We had Linney for 6 years and she was VERY bossy! She occasionally would give a random neck bite to her cagemate just because she could, and woe to anyone who tried to drink before Linney! LOL! Some sows just feel the need to reinforce their dominance more often than others. I don't think her cagemates were particularly unhappy, though... they simply let Linney know that they knew she was the boss and things settled down promptly (and that 'shriek,' as awful as it sounds, is really just the subordinate pig letting the dominant pig know that they agree that they are the boss and are not challenging them. I heard it a LOT over the years that we had Linney! It doesn't mean that they are hurt or even particularly frightened, they are just demonstrated that they know that the boss is not them!) Since you are not seeing any actual fighting, I think you are just seeing normal dominance displays and that things should settle down (with periodic hormonal flareups!) once they establish the pecking order. As others have said, it's better to keep them together, as separating them between meetings forces them to begin again at square one every time you introduce them. I also think it's really important not to translate human emotions onto guinea pigs. Yes, they have emotional lives, but their needs are not the same as ours. So what may look cruel to us is, in fact, very normal to them. I've also sometimes felt bad for my more subordinate pig, but keep reminding myself that guinea pig society is a hierarchy and that they are actually happier knowing their rank in the hierarchy. I've also noticed that some pigs really like to be the boss, where other pigs have NO desire to be the boss at all! When Linney passed away, it left her cagemate, Sundae, who is a very submissive pig, on her own, and she was very lost without the leadership that Linney had been providing for her whole life. When we introduced a baby sow I thought that Sundae would finally get her day to be the head pig, but she immediately demonstrated that she was totally willing to be submissive to baby Hadley (who was about half her size and a third of her weight when we introduced them!) Sundae apparently just does not have it in her to boss anyone around. She is very content to be the follower. Hadley is the dominant pig of the pair, but you would never really know it... she's very mellow and not at all bossy. And Linney, as I've said, was the tyrant queen of all pigs in the household! LOL! But despite the differences, we did have several changing pairs with different personalities (Linney and Frenzy, Linney and Sundae, Sundae and Hadley) live together over the years and all seemed happy with the arrangement.
 
We had Linney for 6 years and she was VERY bossy! She occasionally would give a random neck bite to her cagemate just because she could, and woe to anyone who tried to drink before Linney! LOL! Some sows just feel the need to reinforce their dominance more often than others. I don't think her cagemates were particularly unhappy, though... they simply let Linney know that they knew she was the boss and things settled down promptly (and that 'shriek,' as awful as it sounds, is really just the subordinate pig letting the dominant pig know that they agree that they are the boss and are not challenging them. I heard it a LOT over the years that we had Linney! It doesn't mean that they are hurt or even particularly frightened, they are just demonstrated that they know that the boss is not them!) Since you are not seeing any actual fighting, I think you are just seeing normal dominance displays and that things should settle down (with periodic hormonal flareups!) once they establish the pecking order. As others have said, it's better to keep them together, as separating them between meetings forces them to begin again at square one every time you introduce them. I also think it's really important not to translate human emotions onto guinea pigs. Yes, they have emotional lives, but their needs are not the same as ours. So what may look cruel to us is, in fact, very normal to them. I've also sometimes felt bad for my more subordinate pig, but keep reminding myself that guinea pig society is a hierarchy and that they are actually happier knowing their rank in the hierarchy. I've also noticed that some pigs really like to be the boss, where other pigs have NO desire to be the boss at all! When Linney passed away, it left her cagemate, Sundae, who is a very submissive pig, on her own, and she was very lost without the leadership that Linney had been providing for her whole life. When we introduced a baby sow I thought that Sundae would finally get her day to be the head pig, but she immediately demonstrated that she was totally willing to be submissive to baby Hadley (who was about half her size and a third of her weight when we introduced them!) Sundae apparently just does not have it in her to boss anyone around. She is very content to be the follower. Hadley is the dominant pig of the pair, but you would never really know it... she's very mellow and not at all bossy. And Linney, as I've said, was the tyrant queen of all pigs in the household! LOL! But despite the differences, we did have several changing pairs with different personalities (Linney and Frenzy, Linney and Sundae, Sundae and Hadley) live together over the years and all seemed happy with the arrangement.
I think Linney is related to my bossy Rocky! Saying that however Rocky did lick little Blossom's face after I clipped their nails - SO CUTE! :)
 
I think Linney is related to my bossy Rocky! Saying that however Rocky did lick little Blossom's face after I clipped their nails - SO CUTE! :)
So sweet! Linney was obviously fond of her 'sisters' and would fret when they were at the vet and would wash their faces when they came back... though I suspect she liked them because they didn't cross her! LOL! It can be nervewracking introducing a very dominant pig to a new potential friend because I'm quite sure that pigs like Linney and Rocky would not get along with other pigs with the same temperament. When we got Sundae, we made sure to ask about disposition and basically asked for the biggest doormat possible- and we got one! LOL!
 
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