Aggression Whilst In Season

[Beans&Toast]

(Not sure if this post belongs here or in behaviour section?)

I'm getting quite worried about Toast's behaviour and how it's affecting Beans.

The past 4 times of Toast coming into season it's been getting progressively worse. She gets extremely aggressive with Beans sometimes and won't leave her alone for hours on end, then she'll go a few hours being fine then back to being aggressive. She also does this thing where it looks like she's trembling and twitching her head as if she's really annoyed/agitated? I end up having to put a divider in their cage for about 4 days until Toast calms down again because poor Beans just looks exhausted with it.

Toast had xrays and scans about 3 months ago and there were no lumps or anything on her ovaries so I'm not sure what's going on if it's hormonal or not but it's clearly stressing them both out when she's in season.

Any suggestions welcome as I'm at a loss as to what I should do...

 

[Kerrie74]

It's normal sadly (well it is in my home LOL), Coco has cysts (small ones) she's a little madam now and you should see Nattie and Khaleesi who don't have them... omg they had me awake on and off all night one night last week lol. Little so and so's.

 

[Beans&Toast]

She's only just started doing this though. And Beans is neither up nor down when she comes onto season.. I don't know if the fact that it's summer has any affect on them coming into season?

 

[Kerrie74]

Hmm not sure, I know when my son took Jericho to the vets when we first adopted him (he came to us smelling, sore rump, scabby bottom, dandruff, fur sticking up) he said that his back end was sore because he had secreted too much grease with it being Spring. My girls always squabble, the two ginger girls seem to squabble more.

Maybe someone with more experience than me with girls can answer your question.

 

[Beans&Toast]

I didn't know they can get sore from overusing their grease gland

I just don't want them to be stressed with it

 

[Eriathwen]

I've had the same issue with Blackberry the last couple of days, rumbling and chasing poor Bramble around the place and generally being very irritable. I've been putting it down to the heat to be honest, she's even chattered her teeth at me, they don't seem to be enjoying the warm weather at all!

 

[Adelle]

This is how crunchie started out before she ended up behaving like this constantly- she had several small cysts in her ovaries. They could have appeared within the last 3 months so may be worth having her re scanned if she doesnt settle down x

 

[Beans&Toast]

This is how crunchie started out before she ended up behaving like this constantly- she had several small cysts in her ovaries. They could have appeared within the last 3 months so may be worth having her re scanned if she doesnt settle down x

Thanks. What was the treatment for Crunchie? X

 

[Adelle]

Thanks. What was the treatment for Crunchie? X

She had the hormone injections, 2 10 days apart. They shrunk the cysts and her behaviour returned to normal.

She ended up being spayed a while later as she was still suffering from
Bloat on and off (which started at the same time as cysts where found). This was suspected to be caused by a badly diseased uterus, so she was spayed and she returned to normal after x

 

[Beans&Toast]

She had the hormone injections, 2 10 days apart. They shrunk the cysts and her behaviour returned to normal.

She ended up being spayed a while later as she was still suffering from
Bloat on and off (which started at the same time as cysts where found). This was suspected to be caused by a badly diseased uterus, so she was spayed and she returned to normal after x

Is bloat connected to the formation of cysts? I'm really hoping it doesn't come to that, with her needing to be spayed. I don't know how old Toast is, vet thinks maybe 3 or 4 but really that's a guess... what age was Crunchie when she was spayed?

 

[Adelle]

Bloat can be secondary to another condition causing reduced appetite and a slow down of the guts. In crunchies case it was due to her uterus, as the bloat remained when the cysts had shrunk and hormones balanced. Crunchie was 4 at the time, i thought she was 5 but spoke to her previous owner not long after her op and found out she was 4. She was fine x

 

[Beans&Toast]

Bloat can be secondary to another condition causing reduced appetite and a slow down of the guts. In crunchies case it was due to her uterus, as the bloat remained when the cysts had shrunk and hormones balanced. Crunchie was 4 at the time, i thought she was 5 but spoke to her previous owner not long after her op and found out she was 4. She was fine x

She's definitely never had reduced appetite, but she has had bloat a few times. Although I'm sure this is caused by grass actually.
At what stage do I get her checked for cysts again? Now, or only if/when she starts being aggressive all the time?

 

[Freela]

Hadley is having a really strong season right now, so it's funny you should mention it. I feel bad for Sundae. She is blind so even avoiding Hadley is probably challenging right now! Because this isn't the norm for her, I'm just chalking it up to a strong season right now. I wonder if they do get friskier in the springtime. Some girls seem more affected by heat cycles than others. Actually my son was home sick today and Hadley has been driving him nuts because she is constantly rumblestrutting around being a noisy pain in the butt!

 

[Adelle]

You know her best, its entirely your own judgement. If shes even worse by next season then id have her checked x

 

[Beans&Toast]

Hadley is having a really strong season right now, so it's funny you should mention it. I feel bad for Sundae. She is blind so even avoiding Hadley is probably challenging right now! Because this isn't the norm for her, I'm just chalking it up to a strong season right now. I wonder if they do get friskier in the springtime. Some girls seem more affected by heat cycles than others. Actually my son was home sick today and Hadley has been driving him nuts because she is constantly rumblestrutting around being a noisy pain in the butt!

I'm sure summer can make some animals a but more frisky
It's a shame for the poor pigs who have to put up with this amorous behaviour! Toast was quite bad today though so I used c and c grids to devide them for a bit, she seems to have calmed back down now though.

 

[helen105281]

I agree with getting her checked as this is similar to Fuzzy's behaviour when she had microscopic cysts. They didn't show up on a scan either though that could have been down to my vets not being experienced. She ended up going to Simon Maddock in the end who found them without needing to do a scan.

Does she have any thinning of her hair?

Saying that this weather has made my Tim's hormones surge, her was being a right pain in the bum with poor Sophie the other day (she is spayed, he isn't neutered).

I have also experienced bloat being linked to cysts. My Millie has gassy episodes and she has had ovarian cysts in the past (which actually burst themselves) but when they were growing her gassy episodes increased. Also when I used to help at a vets we had a pig come in who had very large cysts that were pressing on her other organs, and causing bloat like symptoms.

 

[Beans&Toast]

I agree with getting her checked as this is similar to Fuzzy's behaviour when she had microscopic cysts. They didn't show up on a scan either though that could have been down to my vets not being experienced. She ended up going to Simon Maddock in the end who found them without needing to do a scan.

Does she have any thinning of her hair?

Saying that this weather has made my Tim's hormones surge, her was being a right pain in the bum with poor Sophie the other day (she is spayed, he isn't neutered).

I have also experienced bloat being linked to cysts. My Millie has gassy episodes and she has had ovarian cysts in the past (which actually burst themselves) but when they were growing her gassy episodes increased. Also when I used to help at a vets we had a pig come in who had very large cysts that were pressing on her other organs, and causing bloat like symptoms.

She doesn't have any hair loss, and I had her at the vets last week, who had a really good feel of her and felt nothing. But if it continues I will get her in for a scan again, although I'm hoping it's just the weather, it has been extremely hot here the past week or so.
It just can't be possible for one pig to have sooo many health issues!

 

[pig in the city]

I had a grumpy foster pig who's only sign of hormone problems was crusty nipples. She also had bladder issues. Talking to the vet we decided to have her ovaries removed by keyhole surgery as her chances of being rehomed with possible developing ovarian cysts was small.
Her ovaries showed small cysts only.
Her mood dramatically improved and her bladder symptoms settled. She has since been rehomed.
Ovarian cysts are a symptom of hormone problems, they don't have to be present for hormonal issues to be causing problems.
I wouldn't recommend a spay unless there were clear health reasons, but ovariectomy by keyhole surgery is minimally invasive and very safe in the right hands

 

[Beans&Toast]

I had a grumpy foster pig who's only sign of hormone problems was crusty nipples. She also had bladder issues. Talking to the vet we decided to have her ovaries removed by keyhole surgery as her chances of being rehomed with possible developing ovarian cysts was small.
Her ovaries showed small cysts only.
Her mood dramatically improved and her bladder symptoms settled. She has since been rehomed.
Ovarian cysts are a symptom of hormone problems, they don't have to be present for hormonal issues to be causing problems.
I wouldn't recommend a spay unless there were clear health reasons, but ovariectomy by keyhole surgery is minimally invasive and very safe in the right hands

Thank you. Would there be a reason a vet wouldn't do keyhole surgery?
I do worry about surgery as Toast has had several issues in the space of a year, bloat, URI, UTI, dental issues needing molars burred to name a few. Although the bloat is managed with meds when needed. When she had GA for the dental work it took about 5 days for her to recover. She's just been very unlucky!

I don't want to jump to conclusions about it being cysts, as this isn't her behaviour all the time, although even when she's not being aggressive in season, she is somewhat a grumpy pig anyway. It's so hard to tell. I'll give it one more time and if she's the same I'll talk to my vet about having her scanned again and go from there

 

[Beans&Toast]

And can I just check, am I doing any harm by putting a divider in the cage at night for a few days while Toast is in season?
It's a c and c cage so they can still see/touch/hear each other. I hate to think I'm messing with their hierarchy or anything, but at the same time poor Beans is being harassed and can't get any peace..

 

[Adelle]

If toast is really affecting beans and causing problems with her, and they are both content being seperate, then its best to put the divider up until toast is out of heat. You just need to weigh up what will make them happier for now x

 

[pig in the city]

Thank you. Would there be a reason a vet wouldn't do keyhole surgery?
I do worry about surgery as Toast has had several issues in the space of a year, bloat, URI, UTI, dental issues needing molars burred to name a few. Although the bloat is managed with meds when needed. When she had GA for the dental work it took about 5 days for her to recover. She's just been very unlucky!

I don't want to jump to conclusions about it being cysts, as this isn't her behaviour all the time, although even when she's not being aggressive in season, she is somewhat a grumpy pig anyway. It's so hard to tell. I'll give it one more time and if she's the same I'll talk to my vet about having her scanned again and go from there

Not many vets can do it! We use Ellie whitehead at Alfreton park veterinary hospital, molly varga does it as well

 

[Wiebke]

Please check whether Beans is in season all the time (her bits are open constantly). In that case, I would consider treatment, if necessary hormone treatment and not a spay.

PS: After Sian's horrible experience with having her two boars neutered at a Molly Varga clinic, I would strongly recommend to use Alfreton Park.

 

[Kerrie74]

@Beans&Toast neither did I, but it's when they have TOO much grease apparently, his skin was so red and after making sure it was cleaned daily and the grease gotten rid of, he's ok, but it did take a while for the soreness to go.

I second what Wiebke has said in regards to Alfreton, Coco is going for an ovarectomy there and Snow has just had a mammary tumour removed by Ellie, all went well, he's off for his post op today.

 

[Beans&Toast]

Please check whether Beans is in season all the time (her bits are open constantly). In that case, I would consider treatment, if necessary hormone treatment and not a spay.

PS: After Sian's horrible experience with having her two boars neutered at a Molly Varga clinic, I would strongly recommend to use Alfreton Park.

Can hormone treatment do the job just as well as a spay?

My vet is Glenn at Apex Vets. He's very good and I've had both of them in for lots of things, never surgery though so I don't know how well he could do surgery.. has anyone on the forum had surgery from him do you know?

 

[Wiebke]

Can hormone treatment do the job just as well as a spay?

My vet is Glenn at Apex Vets. He's very good and I've had both of them in for lots of things, never surgery though so I don't know how well he could do surgery.. has anyone on the forum had surgery from him do you know?

Hormone treatment is not quite as permanent, it does not always work and there can be side effects, so it is worth to discuss the pros and cons with your vet. It can take two course to settle the hormones down, but it is a valid alternative to a spay and it can do the trick. it also depends on what is exactly the problem with the ovarian cyst(s).

We have a number of members who have treated hormonally instead of risking a spay, especially in frailer and older piggies or if you are afraid of putting your sow through what is in effect a major operation.

I know that @flintstones uses Apex Vets.

 

[flintstones]

Glenn removed a Stone from P's uretre which is a somewhat impressive operation! He's neutered two boars this year for me also both sailed though with no complications.

His surgery skills are amazing, Fred had his tooth extracted and a huge abscess lanced also.

 

[helen105281]

Please check whether Beans is in season all the time (her bits are open constantly). In that case, I would consider treatment, if necessary hormone treatment and not a spay.

PS: After Sian's horrible experience with having her two boars neutered at a Molly Varga clinic, I would strongly recommend to use Alfreton Park.

This is what happened with Fuzzy, her membrane was permanently open. She needed a full spay though as it was so advanced.