After op behaviour

[Penguin2809]

Hi all. I asked a few days ago about advice with regards to removing a mass etc on my piggies. Thank you to everyone who replied and gave me reassurance.

So he went in for surgery on Tuesday 1st and I'm glad to say he came through the surgery. Apparently the second after he woke up he went straight for food. So I brought he home that evening with him a little out of still. After being told he was eating I asuyhe would be basically normal. I was dreadfully wrong and had no idea what to do. Not only did she to start with gave me the wrong syringe for his meds but also the wrong amount. She also failed to explain what I should expect for the next few days. Anyway so I was up every few hrs on Tuesday night checking on him and was really concerned he wasn't eating. He did take something of me every 3-4hrs which was better than nothing but at 7am on Wednesday I started critical care mixed with his nuggets and even though I had him on me, he was eating on his own. Anyway had to do that all day Wednesday. Fast forward to this morning friday 4th. 3 days after surgery. So he is more alert, more interested in food, especially his greens, he takes his meds well and I also started him on probiotics as well on Wednesday night. But he isn't that interested in hay or pellets. Hay he will nibble but nothing major. Pellets he won't eat unless it's mixed with strawberry juice that I got from blending strawberrys. I'm ok doing it if that will make him eat for a few days but I'm worried he won't eat it when it's normal nuggets if I carry on. I know it's still early days so I should do anything to keep him eating for now. I did try wheat bran like someone suggested but he screwed his nose up haven't tried again. I'm worried he won't eat when I'm not around

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please ensure you are doing daily weight checks - weigh him every morning - as that is the only way to know he was given enough syringe feed in the previous 24 hours and any independent hay eating. His weight needs to stay stable each day.

You are aiming for a minimum of 60ml of critical care syringe feeds per 24 hours (your weight checks are the guide as to whether he has had enough including any independent hay intake). You have to manage syringe feeds around your time out of the house to still get a good amount of feed into him to stop weight loss. Typically in a loss of appetite you would need to feed every 2 hours but where the appetite for independent hay eating is better around every 3-4 hours.

You either need to get proper oxbow critical care or to mix normal pellets with water. A bit of strawberry is fine to improve the flavour but you don’t want to add lots of unnecessary sugar into him.

If you are worried about long term of him refusing to eat nuggets without strawberry added, then after he is better, simply don’t give him nuggets anymore if he refuses them. Nuggets aren’t needed in the diet so it doesn’t matter, after he is recovered, if he refuses them without sweeteners.

Thread 'Tips For Post-operative Care'

Feb 7, 2016

1 Preparing for an operation
2 Care tips for freshly operated guinea pigs
- General advice
- Supportive home care and syringe feeding
- Pain relief, gut stimulants and when to see a vet as an emergency
3 Recovery
4 Companionship
- The importance of company
- Tips for medically separated piggies


Ideally, your...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 2
• Forum: Wiebke's Home Care Guides

• 

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

Jun 20, 2024

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI
3 The...

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• Replies: 5
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Thread 'All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures'

Mar 9, 2022

Introduction
1 Choosing the right place to medicate/feed your piggy
2 Guinea pig whispering and asserting your authority
3 Recovery products and emergency improvisation
4 Syringe recommendations
5 Weight monitoring: your biggest ally
6 Weight loss guidelines and when to step in with feeding
7 Syringe feeding amounts/frequency advice
8 Practical medication and syringing tips
9 Medicating and feeding cooperative guinea pigs (videos)
10 Medicating and feeding uncooperative guinea pigs (hold pictures and tips)
11 The line between life and...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Health & Illness Support Corner

• 
• 

 

[Penguin2809]

That's him nibbling critical care/wheat bran/nuggets. He is starting to eat on his own. That's a pic of his poo compared to his brother's. I can't see any in his bed over night

 

[Piggies&buns]

Are you weighing him daily?

The poop in the picture is reflecting that he hadn’t eaten enough 1-2 days ago.
No poop overnight can mean he didnt get enough food late the day before/early yesterday. As I say you are looking at at least 60ml of syringe feeds needed to replace lost hay intake.
There is a 1-2 day delay between food intake and poop output which is why poop isn’t an accurate picture of the up to date food intake.

 

[Penguin2809]

Are you weighing him daily?

The poop in the picture is reflecting that he hadn’t eaten enough 1-2 days ago.
No poop overnight can mean he didnt get enough food late the day before/early yesterday. As I say you are looking at at least 60ml of syringe feeds needed to replace lost hay intake.
There is a 1-2 day delay between food intake and poop output which is why poop isn’t an accurate picture of the up to date food intake.

I'm trying to feed him as much as I can but he refuses most of the time. Am I suppose to make this mush liquid enough to syringe it down his throat?

 

[Penguin2809]

He has just produced 2 normal sizes poo. Maybe a little smaller but not dramatically like the photo. If it says there is a one to 2 day delay then yeah he didn't eat much after his surgery but he has been getting better each day. I've only weighed his this morning and he is around 1250. He was 1276 ish on the day of surgery

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm trying to feed him as much as I can but he refuses most of the time. Am I suppose to make this mush liquid enough to syringe it down his throat?

You don’t syringe it down his throat in that sense
(you never force it as it will lead to aspiration) but yes It should be thin enough to go through a 1ml syringe and you then offer him the syringe (if using mushed pellets then you need to cut the tapered end off as pellet mush is more coarse than oxbow critical care. If you don’t cut the end off with pellet mush then all that will happen is the water and no mush gets sucked up into the syringe which isn’t right). You then feed as many syringe fulls as he will take at each sitting - the less he takes at each sittings, the more sittings are needed ie only taking 5ml at a sitting means a loss of appetite and he needs to be fed every 2 hours. Taking 10ml+ plus he still had good appetite and can be fed every 3-4 hours. If he takes 10-15ml at each sitting then you would be aiming for around six sittings per day to get to the 60ml (they can need up to 90ml per day to keep the weight stable - this is why the daily weight checks are so important).
If he is eating some off the plate independently then that is good. It may mean you can do that instead of syringing but only if he eats enough of it (along with independent hay intake) to keep his weight is stable each day.

 

[Piggies&buns]

He has just produced 2 normal sizes poo. Maybe a little smaller but not dramatically like the photo. If it says there is a one to 2 day delay then yeah he didn't eat much after his surgery but he has been getting better each day. I've only weighed his this morning and he is around 1250. He was 1276 ish on the day of surgery

Make sure you weigh him every morning from now until he is fully recovered so you can monitor.
This means he has only gone down by 26g which is good - 50g or more is considered weight loss.

 

[Penguin2809]

Make sure you weigh him every morning from now until he is fully recovered so you can monitor.
This means he has only gone down by 26g which is good - 50g or more is considered weight loss.

I should also mention he is fine eating greens, pea flakes burgess excess nature snacks and again will nibble on hay too. I'm not sure if he is eating enough in general and no one has told me anything to expect after surgery so I have no clue what I'm doing or if I doing it right etc. There is no one I can even ask and yeah I could take him back to the vets, his check up is tomorrow but they clearly forgot to tell me anything useful after the surgery so why would they do now

 

[Piggies&buns]

I should also mention he is fine eating greens, pea flakes burgess excess nature snacks and again will nibble on hay too. I'm not sure if he is eating enough in general and no one has told me anything to expect after surgery so I have no clue what I'm doing or if I doing it right etc. There is no one I can even ask and yeah I could take him back to the vets, his check up is tomorrow but they clearly forgot to tell me anything useful after the surgery so why would they do now

Hay is their main food intake and makes up 75% of what they need to eat in a day. Not eating hay or not eating enough means he will lose weight and that then means you need to syringe feed. The critical care syringe feeds replace the loss in hay intake. You need to weigh daily to monitor hay intake as you cannot tell they are eating enough by eye.

The greens, snacks and pea flakes are simply supplementary/treats (peaflakes should not be a regular thing anyway) and technically don’t count as such - although it’s good he is eating them as it shows he still has appetite. They won’t maintain his weight though as he should have more than recommended amounts.

If his weight is stable then he is eating - as I say 50g or more of weight loss is considered weight loss. Less than that is fluctuation. You must weigh daily during recovery to monitor.

All the guides I have linked in explain everything in much more detail than we can repeat in every post.

 

[Penguin2809]

I'll double check my scales against another one just in case because my scales said he weighed 1276g the evening before the op but was 1310g on the morning. Possibly bladder full but I'll still check accuracy.

I've literally syringe fed him probably about 6ml which then he literally told me it was enough. The syringes I have are different measurements so that's a rough estimate based on my actual one I use for his meds. He is also eating hay as stated above. I'll feed him as much as he is sort of willing to take every 4 hrs and go from there. He has his check up tomorrow morning. I do remember the vet saying to fed him what he wants to eat and try not to over feed syringe feeding because he wont want to go back to dependent feeding if he isn't hungry. Are rolled oats ok for him to eat to put weight on? He loves them, or at least he did when he was a baby because he was really underweight when he was around 4 months

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'll double check my scales against another one just in case because my scales said he weighed 1276g the evening before the op but was 1310g on the morning. Possibly bladder full but I'll still check accuracy.

I've literally syringe fed him probably about 6ml which then he literally told me it was enough. The syringes I have are different measurements so that's a rough estimate based on my actual one I use for his meds. He is also eating hay as stated above. I'll feed him as much as he is sort of willing to take every 4 hrs and go from there. He has his check up tomorrow morning. I do remember the vet saying to fed him what he wants to eat and try not to over feed syringe feeding because he wont want to go back to dependent feeding if he isn't hungry. Are rolled oats ok for him to eat to put weight on? He loves them, or at least he did when he was a baby because he was really underweight when he was around 4 months

It’s not the case that you can overfeed syringe feeding and stop them from wanting to eat hay.
If they dont want to take much at a syringe feed and are maintaining their weight then it’s because they are filling themself up with hay independently and then they will refuse the syringe feed. It is not the other way round.

If he is maintaining his weight and hasn’t lost considerable amounts then he doesn’t need oats.
A few oats can be useful after they are recovered and then need a bit of a boost to help put lost weight back on (if they have lost a lot).

If he has lost more than 50g then he needs syringe feeds rather than oats. You can give a very small amount of oats if you wish but it cannot be much to detract from syringe feeds

 

[Penguin2809]

Yeah ok, well I can only feed him as much as he will take so as I said I'll feed him every 4 hrs today/tonight with his usual treats, veg a little bit of oats and soak nuggets in strawberrys and see what the vet says tomorrow.

My kitchen scales, weighing one of my others come up 1147g while the one I use to weigh piggies is 1153g. I checked twice which means he has lost a considerable amount of weight since Tuesday morning

 

[Piggies&buns]

If that is the case and he has lost 100g then he needs a lot of syringe feeding and it may mean little and often - feeding every 2 hours rather than 4 if possible. The less they take at a sitting the more sittings are needed to get to the 60ml
What you are looking for now is a stabilization and no more weight loss. Regaining lost weight takes weeks after recovery and is done through eating a normal hay diet independently.

 

[Penguin2809]

No sorry, the weight I gave above, the 1147-1153 was of another pig. I was comparing the 2 scales I have. the 1153 was of the one I use to weigh piggies and the 1147 was a kitchen scales. Nothing to do with my pig who had the surgery

The pig which had the surgery weighed 1250 this morning. On the day of the surgery at the vets he weighed 1310. But when I weighed him the before the surgery he was around 1276. So if the vets scale as to go by and then my rough 1250 this morning then he lost 60g in 3 days.

Sorry for the confusion if it was that amount of more I would of taken him to vets asap

 

[Wiebke]

That's him nibbling critical care/wheat bran/nuggets. He is starting to eat on his own. That's a pic of his poo compared to his brother's. I can't see any in his bed over night

No sorry, the weight I gave above, the 1147-1153 was of another pig. I was comparing the 2 scales I have. the 1153 was of the one I use to weigh piggies and the 1147 was a kitchen scales. Nothing to do with my pig who had the surgery

The pig which had the surgery weighed 1250 this morning. On the day of the surgery at the vets he weighed 1310. But when I weighed him the before the surgery he was around 1276. So if the vets scale as to go by and then my rough 1250 this morning then he lost 60g in 3 days.

Sorry for the confusion if it was that amount of more I would of taken him to vets asap

Hi

I am very sorry. Please take your time to read the guide links in @Piggies&buns 's post. You will find them very helpful. 30g in three days is on the minor side, especially in view of his overall weight. But it looks like that he may need more hay fibre/ top up feed. The reaction to the GA drugs can come a bit later on and is not necessarily instant.

You use weighing first thing in the morning (when the daily weight swing is lowest) for best day to day comparison and to plan how many feeds or topping up feed he needs in 24 hours in order to firstly stabilise the weight.
The second link explains what each monitoring method does and what not and how you can use them all to best advantage. You may find it very helpful.

 

[Penguin2809]

Hi

I am very sorry. Please take your time to read the guide links in @Piggies&buns 's post. You will find them very helpful. 30g in three days is on the minor side, especially in view of his overall weight. But it looks like that he may need more hay fibre/ top up feed. The reaction to the GA drugs can come a bit later on and is not necessarily instant.

You use weighing first thing in the morning (when the daily weight swing is lowest) for best day to day comparison and to plan how many feeds or topping up feed he needs in 24 hours in order to firstly stabilise the weight.
The second link explains what each monitoring method does and what not and how you can use them all to best advantage. You may find it very helpful.

60g in 3 days

 

[Roselina]

Hello it’s a worry isn’t it ! It’s so stressful feeding meds/syringe food
My piggy Bobby had a uti and I found my vets at first weren’t very useful but TGPF gave me all the info and support which I am extremely grateful for.
All the info you’ve been given will help you and it hopefully will get your piggy back to eating normally
Good luck and we’re always here to help and support you

 

[Penguin2809]

So yesterday (Friday) I put up a post about my piggies not eating much after his surgery on Tuesday to remove a mass on the scruff of his neck. I was recommended to syringe feed him at least every 4 hrs which I was doing for 24hrs but this morning he completely refused any syringes with meds/water or food. I think he is really fed up with it all now. So he had his vet check up this morning, she weighed him and he was 1245g compared to 1310g on Tuesday Morning. She isn't worried about his weight lose and does expect to see more. She said she will start to worry when it's around 1100g. He is a small pig to be far but his weight has always been between 1300g - 1350g. Ignoring his weight lose ATM, he is eating and will eat veg, pea flakes, Timothy hay treats and sometimes nuggets if it's mixed with strawberry puree. Hay he will nibble but isn't that interested. Vets recommended grass, as much as he will eat. Well yeah he ate some but not a lot. The vet said not to feed him to much syringe food because it's sloppy and he needs to be hungry to get up and eat for himself. I don't know what to do for the best. I can't keep forcing him to eat but he needs to eat as well. I know it's day 4, he still has stitches which could feel uncomfortable etc but I'm absolutely terrified he will pass away. He is nearly his normal self, adventurous, nosey and loves running around

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’ve merged your new post with yesterday’s thread. We ask that you keep to the same thread so all background information is together.

If he was 1250 yesterday and 1245 today then his weight is relatively stable with how much you fed him yesterday. You need to continue weighing daily and gauging what is happening and adjusting the amount of syringe feed accordingly to keep his weight stable each day. He is a good size but I wouldn’t allow a pig of mine to lose up to 250g before doing anything about it.

How much pain medication is he on?

 

[Penguin2809]

I’ve merged your new post with yesterday’s thread. We ask that you keep to the same thread so all background information is together.

If he was 1250 yesterday and 1245 today then his weight is relatively stable with how much you fed him yesterday. You need to continue weighing daily and gauging what is happening and adjusting the amount of syringe feed accordingly to keep his weight stable each day. He is a good size but I wouldn’t allow a pig of mine to lose up to 250g before doing anything about it.

How much pain medication is he on?

0.8ml of pain meds. Not antibiotics. The vet didn't say anything else about syringe feeding him only that he shouldn't eat mushy food because of his teeth. And as I said he is becoming really aggressive and annoyed being fed by syringe and meds on top. I have just fed him a little bit of mushed pellets wrapped in a small bit of raspberry. He had about a teaspoon give or take. Apparently I need to feed him enough to keep his stomach moving but that's it

 

[Penguin2809]

I’ve merged your new post with yesterday’s thread. We ask that you keep to the same thread so all background information is together.

If he was 1250 yesterday and 1245 today then his weight is relatively stable with how much you fed him yesterday. You need to continue weighing daily and gauging what is happening and adjusting the amount of syringe feed accordingly to keep his weight stable each day. He is a good size but I wouldn’t allow a pig of mine to lose up to 250g before doing anything about it.

How much pain medication is he on?

I thinking about buying some oat hay tomorrow to try and encourage foraging and eating of hay again. It's slightly higher in fibre and fats which in theory should help. I'm also going to call the vets on Monday to see if they will remove stitches a few days earlier in case it's pulling when he eats. They said she would of done it today but was worried about him splitting it open. His appointment is Friday for the removal but I was thinking maybe Wednesday

 

[Piggies&buns]

It is true that they need to chew hay to wear the teeth but it’s not a primary concern in the wake of surgery/illness. Syringe feeding is essential when they are recovering/ill/not eating for themselves. His teeth won’t overgrow in the time it takes him to recover from surgery.

You need to feed him enough that his weight is kept stable but that also includes the amount he eats independently.
The more a piggy eats independently, the less syringe feed they need.
But that also means the less they eat independently, the more syringe feed they need.

It’s a good idea to try fresh grass and different hay to pique his interest and appetite.
It’s recommended to give a syringe feed and then end it by offering fresh grass and/or hay to encourage them to continue eating.

 

[Penguin2809]

It is true that they need to chew hay to wear the teeth but it’s not a primary concern in the wake of surgery/illness. Syringe feeding is essential when they are recovering/ill/not eating for themselves. His teeth won’t overgrow in the time it takes him to recover from surgery.

You need to feed him enough that his weight is kept stable but that also includes the amount he eats independently.
The more a piggy eats independently, the less syringe feed they need.
But that also means the less they eat independently, the more syringe feed they need.

It’s a good idea to try fresh grass and different hay to pique his interest and appetite.
It’s recommended to give a syringe feed and then end it by offering fresh grass and/or hay to encourage them to continue eating.

Yeah I understand, it's not that I'm disagreeing with you or anything but I'm being told by the vet one thing and then my subconscious is causing me to have anxiety when I see him sleeping more than eating but to be fair, I think his behaviour is pretty much what it normally is just with a little less hay intake. I mushed up some pellets and wrapped it around bits of raspberry and he ate about half a teaspoon in total without force and then he ran back to his cage and had his head in the bowl eating strawberry puree mixed nuggets. I'm not worried during the day about him eating because it's normal for him to sleep a lot anyway, it's mainly at night and as I say, lack of interest in hay but yeah I'll be getting some oat hay tomorrow and some foraging stuff to try and help and hopefully the stitches can be removed a few days earlier which could be causing his discomfort to eat hay

 

[Piggies&buns]

Generally speaking, with post surgery pain being managed adequately, the wound should be causing little discomfort.

His weight checks are your way to gauge what he is eating - try not to over watch him if it is making you anxious. Check his weight and that will be your answer as to his food intake.
If he is happier eating it off of a spoon or plate then that is absolutely fine.

It is total food intake in a 24 hour period which counts rather than day vs night.