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Advice re not eating

J

JoannaF

New Born Pup
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My piggy has only been with me for about 6 weeks (was from a rescue which had closed due to sad circumstances so we have no idea of his background or age, though have been advised probably he's around 2 -3 years) He has been to the vets a few times in the last 2 weeks or so after I noticed him squeaking whilst weeing/pooing. He was otherwise showing no symptoms of illness. He was put onto Metacam for a week which I gave to him by putting drops onto his veg, as he's a bit fiesty...and he took this well and we stopped after a week as he seemed to have improved. A week later I noticed him starting to squeak quietly again, and then he passed blood in his wee. He returned to the vets and had a ultrascan on Friday which showed no stones but did show sediment. An area of his bladder was also a bit thickened. I was advised to put him back on Metacam & also Baytril for a week. The first evening I gave his metacam on his lettuce again but then tried the same with Bayril....that did not go well, poor boy. He then became very suspicious of any vegetable which has made me feel really bad. Yesterday evening, with assistance, I got both meds into the side of his mouth. However he is now off his food.

It may be coincidence but it did feel like it all went downhill from giving Baytril the first time. Any advice? Am new to GPs, (not had any since I was a teenager quite a few years ago!) and am on a steep learning curve!

Thank you
 
Hello and welcome. You poor thing. I think we all know on here how difficult it is when a piggy is ill and you don't know what to do to help them.
I'm sure you'll get some good advice on here from more experienced people.
I think you did the right thing in getting the meds directly into his mouth, you don't want to turn him off his food. Always give something nice to eat after meds as I presume they don't taste that good. Do you have critical care? It's a mix that you can give to poorly piggies.
If not, if you have a blender you can blend some of his nuggets with water to make a thick soup and you'll have to syringe feed every few hours if he isn't eating. Try to get what you can into him and water too if he isn't drinking.
When my last two piggies had sludge in urine I gave potassium citrate but best ask your vets advice first.
I know you've already been to the vets and it's really frustrating when you need to keep going back but I really think another visit is needed if he isn't eating. You can phone them for advice if you suspect the baytril is upsetting him.
Please keep us informed and I wish your piggy a speedy recovery xx
 
:wel:

I’m sorry to hear he is unwell.

Metacam tastes nice so most piggies take it willingly. Baytril, on the other hand, tastes disgusting so he is not going to be willing to take it. It is better to syringe meds directly (so you can be sure they are getting the full dose so well done for being able to do that) and then following it up with a tasty treat. He may now associate the nasty taste of baytril and veg. It is going to take a while for him to trust veggies again without baytril being on them.

Being off his food - so hay is their main food intake and is 80% of what he needs to eat in a day. You can only gauge hay intake by weighing piggies (you can’t know they are eating enough by watching them as it is too deceptive). Piggies need to be weighed weekly as part of routine care but when they are unwell or if you have concerns, then you switch to weighing them daily (at the same time each day).
If he is eating hay and his weight remains stable then he is not technically off his food at this point.
If it is just the veg he isn’t eating, then as above, it may simply be because of the baytril association.
If he is not eating enough hay either and his weight is dropping, then that is a different thing. This can happen when they are unwell.
This means he needs to be syringe fed a recovery feed to replace the hay intake (you can mush his normal pellets with water and use that as a syringe feed if you don’t have a proper recovery feed). This is essential and literally lif saving. You need to feed as much as is necessary in each 24 hour period to keep his weight stable, and this also depends on how much hay they are still eating independently even if it is a reduced amount.

Also with antibiotics, it can affect their appetite and consequently hay intake. The antibiotics can kill off the good gut bacteria and make them feel off, Again if this happen then he needs to be syringe fed.
It is a good idea to give probiotics to a piggy on antibiotics as it can help settle their gut. These need to be given either 1-2 hours either before or after an antibiotic does (never at the same time as). Better still, if he has a companion, then poop soup is a great way to boost the gut of a poorly piggy.

Weight - Monitoring and Management
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

The sediment - depends very much on whether he can flush this out himself. Make sure he has lots of water and watery veg (may be tricky now with the baytril issue) as this can help him pass whatever is in there. Sometimes though a bladder flush may be needed.

It’s a good idea to ensure his diet is now as good as it can be.
High calcium intake and poor water intake can lead to this kind of issue and stone formation. It’s not something you’ve done as these issues take a while to form but it’s good idea now to make sure that his diet is kept in check.
Ensure most of his diet is hay. He can have one cup of veg and just one tablespoon of pellets per day.
Make sure high calcium veggies such as kale, spinach and parsley are kept very limited - no more than one small amount once a week. Also ensure carrots and fruit are kept out of the diet or kept as an occasional treat.
Ensure his dinking water is filtered to help keep calcium intake down. Most calcium comes into the diet via unfiltered drinking water and their pellets (even low calcium pellets contain a lot of it!)

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
 
I am so sorry you have been rather plunged in the deep end with this poor piggie. In the green bar above there is a section marked Guinea Pig Info. In the first illness section is instructions on how to syringe feed and a section on the importance of doing so. I have tried several times to link them for you but the links aren't working.
Hopefully an expert will be along for you soon.
 
JoannaF said:
Thank you all for the informative replies. Lots for me to digest. Just to update, he is currently munching very happily at the moment on grass pulled up from the lawn, so it looks like it's not an appetite thing. Will keep close eye on him.
Click to expand...
Good to hear he is doing better. Hope for the best!
Your situation reminded me of my boy Bear when he was taken to the vet almost immediately he came to live with us. Bear came to be friends with my boy Finn after Finn’s friend passed. Bear is also doing very well now.
 
Guinea pigs are prone to bladder stones and sludge because they absorb all the calcium they eat and then any excess passes out the body through the kidneys and bladder. They've presumably evolved this way because their teeth grow all the time and their natural diet doesn't have so much calcium in. Using low calcium water (filtered or bottled: if you have a Waitrose they have a v low calcium Royal Deeside one - don't get the fizzy version!) and encouraging as much drinking as possible helps to flush things through. If he is a new pig to you he may be nervous about his surroundings and hide away more. One of my reluctant drinkers upped her intake significantly when we put her bottle right next to the opening of her 'bedroom' so she didn't have to come out into the open to drink. Turns out she then rattled that spout throughout the night to wake us all up!

Because pigs are so prone to stony, sludgy issues normal things like urinary tract infections can sometimes be overlooked by vets who are focussing on possible stones. It's good you have antibiotics. We've had more UTI in girls than boys (just like in people, because of the anatomy) but George has had a couple since he started to get impaction in his middle years - presumably because his poop hangs round his other openings. My vets always treat for UTI even when they have suspected stones. George is nearly 6 and we recently found he had a big stone in the bladder which unfortunately he's just having to live with but his symptoms at first were quite extreme - weight loss, drinking like a fish, wet through underneath, crying when peeing or pooping, bad smelling pee, eventually a phase of not eating, and when you see the big stone on x-ray you think 'well there's the culprit' but actually it wasn't. He also had a UTI and crusty sludge in his urethra. It's been a few weeks of nursing, worrying and hovering but he's now almost back to what he was... he squeaks quietly when he pees and there's some incontinence but nothing like as bad. He no longer has sludge or infection - obvs he still has his big stone but we're all learning to live with that. He's an old boy but he rumbles around and enjoys life most of the time. George did have blood tinted pee but I think it was more down to the infection and sludge than his big stone because touch wood it seems OK at the mo. Sludge can be painful to pass. Infection causes inflammation. If they're holding pee in it becomes more concentrated - if it gets too concentrated calcium crystals can drop out of solution. So it's best to try and tackle any infection early on to keep him peeing as freely as possible - if you see his symptoms improving a day or so after starting the antibiotics you'll know they're working on something... but try to complete the course.

George loves metacam more than anything and will even drop his cucumber to get it. He's had dog strength (1.5mg/ml) twice a day for a few years because he has arthritis. He dislikes baytril but we usually get prescribed a small vol (0.2 - 0.5 ml twice a day) so I get the baytril in first then follow up with the metacam. They suss the difference pretty quick! But I don't usually have to catch him to give metacam alone - he'll just come and get it and he's not the only pig 😅

Good luck and keep us updated x
 
Hello.
To update on my lovely boy...
He is now eating really well, though still looks in disgust at pepper 😥. Is quite chirpy and feisty. His weight is fine. The latest wee sample has no blood. He has finished his metacam and a 2nd lot of Baytril which he took without much fuss (I'm a proud mum!).

However..the last 3 days when I had been with him in the evening he has squeaked when having a wee. (Not there all day to see if this happens every time) My lovely vet (who now calls him Mr Bitey after he tried to take a chunk out of her the first time she met him...) has suggested an xray on his stomach may be useful but he would need a little sedation.

It sounds awful, but with the ultrasound and wee samples etc so far the vet bills are mounting up and I feel I am no further forward than at the start, except to know crystals and sludge have been seen. No idea how much an xray with sedation would cost- have yet to ask.

I have him on bottled water now and have bought a water filter for when the bottles have been used. We are keeping his nuggets to a spoon a day - though he went off them for a short while, he's now eating them again

Any more words of wisdom? Thank you

Any
 
This is George's x-ray - the bright white dot in the middle is a clear result for a bladder stone, you can also see a line of white at the back - a sludgy urethra.
George's stone.webp But look at this image too:George stone knee.webp
The second image was actually the first one taken and we nearly missed the stone because his knee was in the way.

The sedation they use should be "a whiff of gas" which should put them under for just a few minutes with a quick recovery time, but you can ask about this. The whole process took about 15 mins and cost me £78 but this was on top of the consult which is £40 at my vet. I personally like x-rays because piggy doesn't get shaved or covered in gel and if done correctly the answer is pretty clear. One little sow I had to have a US for was as mad as h*ll about it! They can talk you through what happens beforehand. They sometimes have to fit x-rays in round emergencies and the like, so they suggested I could leave George there to wait for a slot but I chose to wait with him in his cat-box for about half and hour because life is stressful enough for pigs.

Hope that helps. It's better to know what you're dealing with if you can afford it. If you have no stone (which is what you'd hope for) you might just have a really stubborn UTI. If he definitely wasn't squeaking on the baytril but the squeaking started up again a few days after he finished his course that's what you'd be thinking - but as I said in a prev post you can have more than one thing at the same time. Good luck x
 
Thank you that's very helpful. Must admit I'd expected the cost to be more than that, so I'll ask my vets later.

He has been on the Baytril up to yesterday evening but the Metacam ended two days ago. Think the first squeak I noticed was whilst he was still on both.
 
Is an xray beneficial? What will it show that the ultrasound didn't? My concern (apart from funds) is upsetting him and putting him back to being off his food and looking miserable
 
Thank you for the update. So glad to hear things have improved a bit. I think when they start to associate pain meds with feeling better, they know it's for their own good and start to happily take it.
When my boy, Bear was off his veg, I put him on the sofa and with my face next to him, I started nibbling at his veg and that got Bear's interest and he snatched some veg from me to start chomping. Perhaps try that with pepper and if your little one can see you eating it and can smell it, it might encourage him to eat.
Perhaps you could discuss potassium citrate with your vet. If there is sludge, it could help. I used this with my Rory and then with Bear and it really helped them both. I bought powder and my vet helped me work out a dosage.
When Bear had xrays at the beginning of October, it was about £170 for two xrays. Bear was there for about 5 hours so the vets could keep an eye on him and monitor him for pain while peeing. Vets in different areas charge different rates so please check with your vets for costs.
I wish you and your brave boy the best of luck xx
 
Really not sure that an xray would show anything different but you could ask your vet what they might expect to find on an xray that they didn't see on a scan.
I asked my vets not to sedate unless essential. I knew Bear would lay still so I was confident he would be xrayed conscious.
Xrays won't necessarily show all stones. Bear's xray was clear but that night he passed three small round stones and another three the next day.

Well done for getting him to eat. If he can keep that up then hopefully he can keep going. I know it's so difficult to know what to do for the best when you don't know what is wrong. I would definitely ask about potassium citrate. I had researched that and mentioned it to my vet so I don't think it's something they necessarily think about. My vet is very open-minded and even though it wasn't something she prescribed, she was very happy to give it a go and see if it helped.
 
JoannaF said:
Hello.
To update on my lovely boy...
He is now eating really well, though still looks in disgust at pepper 😥. Is quite chirpy and feisty. His weight is fine. The latest wee sample has no blood. He has finished his metacam and a 2nd lot of Baytril which he took without much fuss (I'm a proud mum!).

However..the last 3 days when I had been with him in the evening he has squeaked when having a wee. (Not there all day to see if this happens every time) My lovely vet (who now calls him Mr Bitey after he tried to take a chunk out of her the first time she met him...) has suggested an xray on his stomach may be useful but he would need a little sedation.

It sounds awful, but with the ultrasound and wee samples etc so far the vet bills are mounting up and I feel I am no further forward than at the start, except to know crystals and sludge have been seen. No idea how much an xray with sedation would cost- have yet to ask.

I have him on bottled water now and have bought a water filter for when the bottles have been used. We are keeping his nuggets to a spoon a day - though he went off them for a short while, he's now eating them again

Any more words of wisdom? Thank you

Any
Click to expand...
An ultrasound probably won’t do much but it might give you some peace of mind. If your Guinea pig has an issue with eating again, try giving him a mini tomato (yes they can eat them, but only within moderation). They are sweet and have a good water content. Best of luck with your piggie!
 
JoannaF said:
Is an xray beneficial? What will it show that the ultrasound didn't?
Click to expand...
I guess that we've always had x-rays so I'm familiar with them. The vets are familiar with the procedure and good at it, so the resolution is good for calcium stones and sludge: in George's case I don't think he actually even had the gas... their first option is to swaddle tightly in a towel and snap before they wriggle free. My practice usually suggests x-ray if bladder issues are suspected. My girl who had the ultrasound had a different issue - she'd stopped eating altogether but didn't seem to have any pain or other symptoms so they were US-ing the whole lower abdomen to try and spot any soft tissue abnormalities. We didn't find anything though, and she was sooo hacked off about the shaving and the gel! I couldn't tell you anything about the resolution on an ultrasound scan apart from the standard human ones from when I was expecting and I personally couldn't tell which end was baby's head... but then I'm no ultrasound expert!
 
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