Advice On Dental Issues?

[Beans&Toast]

I'm just looking for advice and opinions about teeth trimming under sedation/GA as Toast will be going through this on Friday as she is now dropping pellets and sometimes chewing to one side.

I posted yesterday about Toast's new health issues
(Possible Diabetes/kidney Failure & Overgrown Molars.)

But I've started this thread purely for dental advice from people who've had the same with their pigs. (I hope that's okay..)

I'm a complete nervous wreck thinking about it and I have so many questions for the vet I'm going to phone later I think.

Toast is around 3-4 years old but maybe older (she's a rescue).
She's already had URI, bloat and now arthritis to deal with in the space of a few months, I'm just not sure how she'll cope with this.

Right now she's absolutely fine in herself, zooming and bopping around and eating fine (apart from dropping some pellets and chewing to one side)

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts who's had their piggy go through this procedure?
How did they cope with it?
What about the after care, did they need help eating?
Did they need the procedure done again a few weeks later?
Was the procedure done incorrectly for anyone?
Is there anything else that could be causing the eating problems apart from overgrown molars?
How much did it cost? (I'm waiting on the vet getting back to me with a rough price)

Sorry for all the questions I'm just so worried and anxious for my little Toasty, she's been through so much I can't bare the thought of anything happening to her and I just wanted to get the opinions of people who've dealt with it already.

Thanks in advance

 

[Adelle]

Never had a dental piggy (touch wood) so cant offer much advice on the procedure. But if done correctly and you get her on to eating solids/plenty of hay as soon as she is able to after the procedure then theres a good chance the teeth should keep themselves in a good "wearing" pattern. She may need some pain relief after if her mouths a little uncomfortable, and being pain free will help with the eating too. In the meantime u can soften her pellets a little with a small amount boiled water, allowed to soak and cool. You can also chop veggies into smaller pieces or grate to help with the eating in the meantime x

 

[Beans&Toast]

Thank you.
I've just heard some horror stories about the teeth being cut too short or not enough and needing to be done again/regularly.

Can you think of anything I should be asking my vet?
I asked if she has experience with this and she said she does see a lot of piggies and they are an exotics vets but I just have this horrible feeling about it.

 

[helen105281]

I think @furryfriends (TEAS) is best to advise.

Is it Glen doing the dental?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I run a sanctuary for guinea pigs with dental issues and work in association with Simon Maddock of the Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton. A lot of the guinea pigs that come to the sanctuary have severe dental disease, that has been left unresolved by many other vets or rodentologists. By the time we see them, they are usually very frail, underweight and their dental disease is completely out of control. Due to the fact that Simon can, in most cases, carry out dental work without needing a GA or sedation, means that he can keep tidying up the mouth and ensuring the teeth are in the best state possible, for the piggy to start eating well again. Dental issues, unless really minor, will not be cured with one treatment. However, by keeping on top of the problem and seeing the piggy regularly to start with, you stand a far better chance of getting a complete cure, than doing the teeth under GA and then waiting until the piggy is struggling again before doing any further work. All that does is patch them up, but not resolve the problem. A few of the guinea pigs that have come to Simon recently have had such severely overgrown teeth that they have needed a GA for the initial treatment, but there is always a follow up a week to 10 days later to ensure the teeth are still good and smooth off any sharp edges or spurs that may be forming. Once good eating is established the time between appointments is increased and in many cases after a few months the piggy may only need infrequent check ups, or the problem may have completely cured.

I recently took in a new permanent resident who had had a dental under GA at another vet only days before. Clearly they hadn't a clue, as poor Oliver had severe ulceration in his mouth, with all four arcades of teeth being severely overgrown. After just one dental he was eating really well, and although Simon is going to see him again in 10 days we are very hopeful that he will completely cure.

We have also had piggies arrive after the owner has been told they have severe dental issues, only for Simon to examine them and find the teeth to be completely normal. Sadly many vets have no idea what guinea pig teeth are meant to look like.

If your vet has plenty of experience of dealing with dental issues, then I would say go ahead, as it doesn't sound like the problem is severe. However, please ask lots of questions as I have seen dental issues caused, not cured, by vets who have no idea.

I just wish you lived close enough to be able to see Simon as you could then be absolutely certain you were going to get the correct treatment for Toast.

Just to add, has the vet felt the jaw carefully to see if the dropping of nuggets could be caused by pain from an incisor root abscess rather than a full on dental issue?

 

[Beans&Toast]

I run a sanctuary for guinea pigs with dental issues and work in association with Simon Maddock of the Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton. A lot of the guinea pigs that come to the sanctuary have severe dental disease, that has been left unresolved by many other vets or rodentologists. By the time we see them, they are usually very frail, underweight and their dental disease is completely out of control. Due to the fact that Simon can, in most cases, carry out dental work without needing a GA or sedation, means that he can keep tidying up the mouth and ensuring the teeth are in the best state possible, for the piggy to start eating well again. Dental issues, unless really minor, will not be cured with one treatment. However, by keeping on top of the problem and seeing the piggy regularly to start with, you stand a far better chance of getting a complete cure, than doing the teeth under GA and then waiting until the piggy is struggling again before doing any further work. All that does is patch them up, but not resolve the problem. A few of the guinea pigs that have come to Simon recently have had such severely overgrown teeth that they have needed a GA for the initial treatment, but there is always a follow up a week to 10 days later to ensure the teeth are still good and smooth off any sharp edges or spurs that may be forming. Once good eating is established the time between appointments is increased and in many cases after a few months the piggy may only need infrequent check ups, or the problem may have completely cured.

I recently took in a new permanent resident who had had a dental under GA at another vet only days before. Clearly they hadn't a clue, as poor Oliver had severe ulceration in his mouth, with all four arcades of teeth being severely overgrown. After just one dental he was eating really well, and although Simon is going to see him again in 10 days we are very hopeful that he will completely cure.

We have also had piggies arrive after the owner has been told they have severe dental issues, only for Simon to examine them and find the teeth to be completely normal. Sadly many vets have no idea what guinea pig teeth are meant to look like.

If your vet has plenty of experience of dealing with dental issues, then I would say go ahead, as it doesn't sound like the problem is severe. However, please ask lots of questions as I have seen dental issues caused, not cured, by vets who have no idea.

I just wish you lived close enough to be able to see Simon as you could then be absolutely certain you were going to get the correct treatment for Toast.

Just to add, has the vet felt the jaw carefully to see if the dropping of nuggets could be caused by pain from an incisor root abscess rather than a full on dental issue?

Thanks for replying. I'd also love to be able to see Simon about this it's a shame I'm so far away. I wouldn't have thought it was severe because Toast is able to eat herself, veg and hard nuggets, it's just that sometimes she drops them but she still eats them and doesn't seem to be in pain whilst doing so, she does this thing where she seems to be moving the food around her mouth but it doesn't stop her from eating.

The vet doing it is Sam from Apex Vets in Deny.
After explaining that Toast drops her nuggets and moves her food around from one side to the other, she said the best thing to do would be to sedate her to have a good look at what's going on in her mouth and if any work is needed she would most likely be put under GA.
I asked if she had experience and she said yes she has dealt with piggies.
I also asked if it could be done without GA as I know about Simon Maddock who does without and she said they don't.
Is there a reason they won't do it without GA? Or is it something most vets use to do dental work?

I've used this vet for a few things with Toast and felt confident but she's never had to be put under so I'm really quite nervous about this.
I'm going to phone her tomorrow as she's off today.

What should I be asking her to make sure this is the best thing for Toast?
And how do I do this without sounding like I'm questioning her skills...

 

[Beans&Toast]

I think @furryfriends (TEAS) is best to advise.

Is it Glen doing the dental?

No it's Sam who's doing it

 

[Beans&Toast]

I've phoned several vets from the vet locator link and they all say they would do this procedure under sedation/general anaesthetic...
But doing my research a lot of people are saying "good" vets can do it without...

Why is this such a divided opinion?
I really just want the best for Toast

 

[eileen]

my Jerry is still going through dental check ups,he had a GA at a local vets,he was running around after 1/2 an hour,he was not eating still.but did not suffer from GA.. Jerry has seen simon four times now,not having a GA ,means he is not drowsy.he eats well now,just not enough food.i occasionally syringe feed pellets in morning ,just to maintain his weight,he did stop eating for a week due to pain of bloat,ive put Jerry on grain free pellets,which has helped.the cost is much less due to not needing GA drugs.aslo simon Maddocks is so competent that he does not waste time to evaluate a diagnosis,he knows immeidiatly, then treats the problem accordingly.I will not trust my piggies to anyone else now,having seen how he engages with his clients and the professionalism he has.there are many very good vets,just I'm lucky that i do not live too far away.maybe you could get a second opinion if your vet is willing to send copies of xrays etc to simon maddocks,just a thought.but I'm sure your vet will be proficient.not all vets are trained to manipulate teeth without using a GA.Hope toast recovers soon.hugs.xx

 

[helen105281]

For some vets I would prefer they do it under GA, as it is easier for them to do it properly. Simon and his wife Kim are quite unique in that they are so skilled at conscious dentistry. People travel from all over the country to see him.

 

[Beans&Toast]

For some vets I would prefer they do it under GA, as it is easier for them to do it properly. Simon and his wife Kim are quite unique in that they are so skilled at conscious dentistry. People travel from all over the country to see him.

What exactly is the difference between sedation and GA? The plan is to have her under sedation to have a good check of the teeth and of work is needed it will be GA. How do people afford dental work if it's something that can need done every few weeks? And how do guinea pigs cope big under GA that often?
I'm really stressing about this now

 

[karonus]

We take Astro once a month (about every 4 weeks) to have his top incisors done and back teeth checked. Due to abscess he lost one bottom incisor and then the other had to be removed. After an intial 100 gm drop over xmas he has now gradually regained his weight after learning how to eat again. The trip to see Simon works out cheaper than if our local vet did the work under GA (even with the 140 mile round trip)

 

[Beans&Toast]

We take Astro once a month (about every 4 weeks) to have his top incisors done and back teeth checked. Due to abscess he lost one bottom incisor and then the other had to be removed. After an intial 100 gm drop over xmas he has now gradually regained his weight after learning how to eat again. The trip to see Simon works out cheaper than if our local vet did the work under GA (even with the 140 mile round trip)

How much does it cost with/without GA?
(I'm still waiting in my vet getting back to me with this info)
And why does it have to be done so often? Is this a life long thing?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I have no idea how much it costs at other vet practices. I have had piggies come here where owners have paid between £100 and £500 per dental. With regard to how often they need dentals, then every piggy is different. Here at TEAS I have some needing fortnightly dentals and some needing 6 monthly dentals, and many in between. Some completely cure, but it isn't generally a quick fix. Often you hear of a piggy doing well for a few weeks and then stopping eating again, when they have had a dental under GA. You can't be giving a piggy a GA every couple of weeks, but by doing dental work with them conscious you can keep on top of the problem and generally the teeth continue to improve over time. When you wait for them to get bad again, then you go back to square one every time. Conscious dentistry works well, and more and more piggies are completely curing. A few years ago I would've said dental problems could be managed but not cured. Now about half of all those we see are curing completely, with most of the others only needing very infrequent filing of their teeth. It is very few who need more regular treatment on a long term basis.

 

[flintstones]

I've phoned several vets from the vet locator link and they all say they would do this procedure under sedation/general anaesthetic...
But doing my research a lot of people are saying "good" vets can do it without...

Why is this such a divided opinion?
I really just want the best for Toast

Glen has did this procedure multiple times on my Fred. Fred had on-going dental issues for sometime, they are now cured. Fred was not given a full Ga, just a Sedation.

Milo, Wilma, and Penfold have also all had dental's done under Sedation.

 

[Beans&Toast]

Glen has did this procedure multiple times on my Fred. Fred had on-going dental issues for sometime, they are now cured. Fred was not given a full Ga, just a Sedation.

Milo, Wilma, and Penfold have also all had dental's done under Sedation.

Really? Sam said it could possibly be done under sedation bit usually needs GA if the piggy won't tolerate it..?
I've only ever seen Glenn as an emergency I always see Sam..
Do you mind if I ask how much this cost?
What was the issue and how many treatments did it require?
Thank you

 

[flintstones]

Really? Sam said it could possibly be done under sedation bit usually needs GA if the piggy won't tolerate it..?
I've only ever seen Glenn as an emergency I always see Sam..
Do you mind if I ask how much this cost?
What was the issue and how many treatments did it require?
Thank you

Fred had dental issues for years started in 2011 - he would lose weight and struggle to eat. I can't remember how regular the treatment was at one point it was every 6 weeks. I would monitor his weight and take him back when it declined. A few years later Fred developed a jaw bone abscess, he lost his front incisor this cleared up his dental issues. I think Fred's abscess was in 2013. I never posted about all Fred's dental issues and can't remember how frequent it was.

It was around £100 maybe less can't really remember.

 

[eileen]

Jerrys GA was £120,that was a check and filing of one molar.so on going treatment would have been more costly than with conscious dental.xx

 

[Beans&Toast]

Unfortunately Toast has gone downhill quite quickly since yesterday.

On Monday she was eating pellets fine-dropping some but still able to eat them.
Tuesday she was finding it a bit more tricky so I was softening some in hot water for her.
Around 3am this morning she couldn't chew them at all so I had to feed her mashed up pellets from a tea spoon (she won't accept a syringe) and then just now with her morning veg she kept trying to pick things up but couldn't manage.
I'm so scared for her

She's taken around 4 tea spoons of mashed up pellets early this morning and about the same there just now and I cut some pepper into tiny chunks which she managed so she's definitely not going hungry but something is seriously wrong now

 

[eileen]

I'm sorry toast is having difficulty chewing,you will need to weight toast daily,and syringe feed to keep her weight maintained,will need some water.guinea pigs teeth grow rapidly ,syringe feeding article gives some advice on dental piggies.it can be deceptive how much they are actually chewing.try and get toast to the vet if you are concerned.you do seem to be having a hard time.hugs to you.xx

 

[Claire W]

I am so sorry to hear about Toasts latest problem My Enoch was a dental piggy but we sadly had to let him go (he suffered complications) but I would prefer not to go in to his story as it is still raw for me and irrelevant for you (like I say, there was more to his story). my vet was able to just use light sedation rather than a full GA.

You could try grating up her veg but please do try and see a vet before Friday if she is struggling to eat xx

 

[Beans&Toast]

I am so sorry to hear about Toasts latest problem My Enoch was a dental piggy and we sadly lost him (he suffered complications) but I would prefer not to go in to his story as it is still raw for me and irrelevant for you (like I say, there was more to his story).

You could try grating up her veg but please do try and see a vet before Friday if she is struggling xx

Thanks

Although Toast is struggling to chew, she definitely still has her appetite and she is lapping up the softened pellets from the spoon. She's also still eating hay which I feel is a good sign. She's just taking much longer to chew and I had to cut her veg into small pieces to make it easier for her.

I'm waiting on my vet phoning me today, she's in surgery until the afternoon..

 

[eileen]

that is good !you are doing all you can.just try and await the vet returning your call,It is vry hard when you can only watch toast eating with difficulty,all you want to do is have it fixed now!.X

 

[Beans&Toast]

that is good !you are doing all you can.just try and await the vet returning your call,It is vry hard when you can only watch toast eating with difficulty,all you want to do is have it fixed now!.X

I know I hate seeing her like this.
I'm still hopeful though because she is still acting her normal self, running about annoying her sister
And she clearly still has her appetite she's just really struggling to chew but I've been giving her softened pellets every few hours which she's happy to take. And I've just weighed her and she fine there.
Hopefully I've caught whatever this is before it progresses too far..

 

[helen105281]

It's good that she still has an appetite. I hope your vet can fit you in earlier than planned.

 

[karonus]

Astro has to have his top front incisors trimmed regularly as he has no bottom ones for them to bite against, so without regular trimming they would eventually grow into his bottom jaw. As a result we use a potato peeler to give him strips of carrot and cucumber and shred his romaine lettuce into strips.

 

[Beans&Toast]

It's good that she still has an appetite. I hope your vet can fit you in earlier than planned.

Yeah I'm quite confident (hoping) that she'll be okay as she hsnt went off her food. She wants it she just can't chew it. Staying positive though she's still being her usual self

 

[Beans&Toast]

Just a little update;

I had a fairly long talk with my vet today.
I asked all my questions about not using sedation/GA to do this and I'm happy with the answer.
Toast is extremely nervous and a very anxious piggy (her previous owner did not look after her at all) so I think using sedation would be for the best, Toast is very easily startled and the slightest unexpected noise is terifying for her so at least this way she'll be calm and the vet can get on with what needs to be done.

She's very confident in working with piggies and has done this several times so I feel much more at ease now. Obviously there's still that risk there but I'm confident that it's low.

Toast has managed to eat some veggies this afternoon I had to cut them very small but she did it. She's also eating softened pellets off a spoon so I'm happy she still has her appetite. And she's still annoying Beans by zooming in and out of her bed so she's still her normal self

 

[flintstones]

Good news , Toast will be on the mend in no time!

 

[Beans&Toast]

Just an update about Toast.

Just had a phone call from the vet, that's her woke up from the GA and she'll just be staying there until 5pm so they can keep an eye on her that she's eating/not in pain etc.

The dental work went well and I've been told it was only very mild dental disease.
Small spurs and her back molars were overgrown by 3mm so had a slight burr.
So this is most likely the reason she was dropping pellets and chewing with weird facial expressions.

The blood work may take a few days to come back with the results as to why Toast is drinking so much water.
But ill deal with that when it comes, for now I'm just happy she's woken up from the GA.

That's possibly the most nerve wracking 3 hour wait of my life.
But I'm so soooo happy she's up and awake

As for the dental work, does this sound "mild" to others?