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Advice needed! Very thin piggies, foot spurs?

majasofia

majasofia

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Hi!
I adopted a pair of 3 year old girls on Sunday. Previous owner had lost interest and I needed new friends for my neutered boar, so it seemed perfect. They haven’t had the best circumstances, living in a small cage and not being fed a great diet, and it’s clear they’ve not received a lot of attention in their previous home…

Their previous owner said they’re both healthy, however I’m a bit worried about them and could use some advice!

Both are very thin, I can clearly feel their ribs, spines and hip bones. But they also have a great appetite, I have been weighing them every few days and they’re both starting to gain weight. Does anyone have any advice on how to help them gain weight? And how can I tell when they’re starting to reach a healthy weight?

I’ve also noticed both have hardened brown skin on their front paws. It doesn’t look swollen or seem painful, so I don’t think it’s bumble foot. But is it likely that two guinea pigs both get spurs? They’ve been outside a lot, could that cause spurs?

They’re both very scared, but eating and drinking and pooping normally. They’ve not yet moved in with my boar as I want to give them time to settle in :)
 
Well done for giving these ladies a second chance. It’s always advisable to maintain a strict 14 day quarantine before introducing new piggies – just in case they have any unwelcome visitors with them or any ill health that you wish to prevent spreading to your boy.

In the initial stages of taking in piggies who aren’t in the best of condition the best thing to do is to weigh them regularly, feed them a healthy largely hay based diet with access to pellets and veggies but introduce veggies carefully and moderately in case they have not been Accustomed to veggies that you are feeding them (or veggies at all). if they are gaining weight gradually, then you know you are on the right path.

In terms of hard patches on their feet, if they have been living in poor sanitary conditions on a rough floor or have been outside a lot then it is possible that they have built up hard patches of skin on their feet. These could simply be foot spurs but it is certainly worth monitoring them closely to see if they change or cause them any discomfort.

Given that you are not 100% about the circumstances they came from it would be a good idea to book both girls in for a vet check before you introduced them to your boar.

You are of course welcome to post photos here of their feet if you can get close-ups and we can take a look for you but we cannot diagnose anything by photograph alone so it would only be to get a better idea of how their feet look.
 
VickiA said:
Well done for giving these ladies a second chance. It’s always advisable to maintain a strict 14 day quarantine before introducing new piggies – just in case they have any unwelcome visitors with them or any ill health that you wish to prevent spreading to your boy.

In the initial stages of taking in piggies who aren’t in the best of condition the best thing to do is to weigh them regularly, feed them a healthy largely hay based diet with access to pellets and veggies but introduce veggies carefully and moderately in case they have not been Accustomed to veggies that you are feeding them (or veggies at all). if they are gaining weight gradually, then you know you are on the right path.

In terms of hard patches on their feet, if they have been living in poor sanitary conditions on a rough floor or have been outside a lot then it is possible that they have built up hard patches of skin on their feet. These could simply be foot spurs but it is certainly worth monitoring them closely to see if they change or cause them any discomfort.

Given that you are not 100% about the circumstances they came from it would be a good idea to book both girls in for a vet check before you introduced them to your boar.

You are of course welcome to post photos here of their feet if you can get close-ups and we can take a look for you but we cannot diagnose anything by photograph alone so it would only be to get a better idea of how their feet look.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I’m just so happy that I could offer them a better home. I got to see a few popcorns the other day and it really warmed my heart ❤️

I think a vet visit is a good idea, but I’m glad to hear we’re on the right path. From what I gathered, they’ve been outside all summer, living on the ground without any bedding, so that might explain the hard skin on their feet. I’ll try and get some close-ups of their paws tonight, although they’re not very used to being handled so it might be difficult…
 
majasofia said:
Hi!
I adopted a pair of 3 year old girls on Sunday. Previous owner had lost interest and I needed new friends for my neutered boar, so it seemed perfect. They haven’t had the best circumstances, living in a small cage and not being fed a great diet, and it’s clear they’ve not received a lot of attention in their previous home…

Their previous owner said they’re both healthy, however I’m a bit worried about them and could use some advice!

Both are very thin, I can clearly feel their ribs, spines and hip bones. But they also have a great appetite, I have been weighing them every few days and they’re both starting to gain weight. Does anyone have any advice on how to help them gain weight? And how can I tell when they’re starting to reach a healthy weight?

I’ve also noticed both have hardened brown skin on their front paws. It doesn’t look swollen or seem painful, so I don’t think it’s bumble foot. But is it likely that two guinea pigs both get spurs? They’ve been outside a lot, could that cause spurs?

They’re both very scared, but eating and drinking and pooping normally. They’ve not yet moved in with my boar as I want to give them time to settle in :)
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome

It is great that you are taking these poor souls in and are giving them a good home. :love:

Are the hard areas on the sides of the soles or in the middle of the soles?

Spurs are growths of dead skin that develop on the sides of pads where no weight is on them.
Bumblefoot (pododermatitis) scabs are in the middle of the pads where the weight is fully on them. They can bleed heavily when they come off.
Calluses can form on the sides of the back feet, more commonly as the result of overlong nails diverting the weight distribution to the sides of the back foot soles.
Guinea Lynx :: Guinea Pig Feet and Foot Problems
Guinea Lynx :: Pododermatitis

However, without pictures we haven't got enough information to comment.

I strongly second having any neglected and malnourished piggies vet checked.

As to a diet. Please follow our diet recommendations. Quality comes over quantity - what you want to achieve is health from the inside out and not stacking on empty calories that go on as fast as they come off. Guinea pigs have a faster metabolism so they will catch up much more quickly.
Wiebke

Thread 'Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets'

Overview
1 The recommended ratio of food groups
2 Hay and fresh grass
3 Vegetables, fresh herbs and fruit with an illustrated balanced sample diet
4 Special dietary needs
- Urinary tract infections, bladder stones and sterile IC (non-bacterial interstitial cystitis)
- Diabetes and long term digestive problems
- Impaction in boars
- Pregnancy and nursing dietary tweaks (only visible to registered members who have accepted our no intentional...
  • Like

What I would however recommend is to feed two tablespoons of alfalfa based pellets before you switch to ideally a daily tablespoon of hay based pellets for the long term, just for the initial boost of extra protein. Or 1 tablespoon of hay based pellets and a handful of alfalfa hay daily in addition to the normal hay for the first month, no longer. You can find links to different hays and pellet brands via the diet guide.
You can also discuss with your vet a 2-3 weeks vitamin C booster - not longer or the body will accustom to the higher levels and react with scurvy symptoms as soon as the level drop suddenly. By that time, nutrients will start filtering through. Brace for the odd week of sudden high weight gain of up to 50g once the reservoirs are filled.

I have adopted several piggies from a bad neglect background and can assure you that it is patience, persistence and a good normal diet that will win out in the long term. Neglect piggies have until about 24 months of age to make up for lost ground to a degree in growth as well as weight so there is likely still plenty of time for yours to catch up.

The good normal diet will boost their immune system for the long term and - unless there are major issues - they still have a good chance at living a normal or even longer life span, as I know from my own. I have had fair number of them living to 6-8 years despite their bad start and not rarely beating their normal companions because they are survivors and have the will to live. :)

Please also take the time to read this link here, which you may find very helpful. Checking around ribs for the cavy BMI will tell you when they have reached their optimum. The guide explains how all the different health and weight monitoring measures work and what each can contribute and what not, including weighing and checking for the BMI.
Wiebke

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI
3 The Weekly and the Daily...
  • Like

We offer a courtesy second opinion sexing service for new guinea pigs.
Wiebke

Thread 'Illustrated Sexing Guide'

1 How to Sex a Guinea Pig
- When do I need to check the sex?
- How do I make sure that I have got the gender 100% right?
- What are the secondary areas that require a hands-on check?
- Nipples
- Penis ridge
- Testicles and Castration
- Slit (What to check in sows and in boars)
2 How to Sex Babies after Birth and at Separation Age
- Newborn boar and sow (genitals)...
  • Like


PS: You may find this very practical information collection helpful into which nearly 20 years of collective forum experience with literally hundreds of thousands of questions have gone. We recommend bookmarking the link:
Wiebke

Thread 'Getting Started - Essential Information for New Owners'

Contents Overview
1 What This Collection Is About
2 Guinea Pigs as Pets
- Family and Classroom Pets
- Sourcing Your Guinea Pigs, Common Pitfalls and Your Customer Rights
- Pet Owners with Anxiety: Practical Tips for Sufferers and Supporters
- Naming your Guinea Pigs and Finding Out the Breed
- Guinea Pigs as a Species: Facts, Development and Social Aspects
3 Living Environment
- Housing (with sourcing tips)
- Bedding...
 
I tried my best to get pictures, but it was hard! I understand it’s probably not possible to say much from these, but any insights are really helpful

It’s pretty much in the same area on both girls, and just on one single paw. So it’s not right in the middle of the paw, but I’m not sure if it’s “enough” to the side that they wouldn’t put weight on it?
In general the paws feel soft, it’s just these specific areas of harder skin.
 

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Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome

It is great that you are taking these poor souls in and are giving them a good home. :love:

Are the hard areas on the sides of the soles or in the middle of the soles?

Spurs are growths of dead skin that develop on the sides of pads where no weight is on them.
Bumblefoot (pododermatitis) scabs are in the middle of the pads where the weight is fully on them. They can bleed heavily when they come off.
Calluses can form on the sides of the back feet, more commonly as the result of overlong nails diverting the weight distribution to the sides of the back foot soles.
Guinea Lynx :: Guinea Pig Feet and Foot Problems
Guinea Lynx :: Pododermatitis

However, without pictures we haven't got enough information to comment.

I strongly second having any neglected and malnourished piggies vet checked.

As to a diet. Please follow our diet recommendations. Quality comes over quantity - what you want to achieve is health from the inside out and not stacking on empty calories that go on as fast as they come off. Guinea pigs have a faster metabolism so they will catch up much more quickly.
Wiebke

Thread 'Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets'

Overview
1 The recommended ratio of food groups
2 Hay and fresh grass
3 Vegetables, fresh herbs and fruit with an illustrated balanced sample diet
4 Special dietary needs
- Urinary tract infections, bladder stones and sterile IC (non-bacterial interstitial cystitis)
- Diabetes and long term digestive problems
- Impaction in boars
- Pregnancy and nursing dietary tweaks (only visible to registered members who have accepted our no intentional...
  • Like

What I would however recommend is to feed two tablespoons of alfalfa based pellets before you switch to ideally a daily tablespoon of hay based pellets for the long term, just for the initial boost of extra protein. Or 1 tablespoon of hay based pellets and a handful of alfalfa hay daily in addition to the normal hay for the first month, no longer. You can find links to different hays and pellet brands via the diet guide.
You can also discuss with your vet a 2-3 weeks vitamin C booster - not longer or the body will accustom to the higher levels and react with scurvy symptoms as soon as the level drop suddenly. By that time, nutrients will start filtering through. Brace for the odd week of sudden high weight gain of up to 50g once the reservoirs are filled.

I have adopted several piggies from a bad neglect background and can assure you that it is patience, persistence and a good normal diet that will win out in the long term. Neglect piggies have until about 24 months of age to make up for lost ground to a degree in growth as well as weight so there is likely still plenty of time for yours to catch up.

The good normal diet will boost their immune system for the long term and - unless there are major issues - they still have a good chance at living a normal or even longer life span, as I know from my own. I have had fair number of them living to 6-8 years despite their bad start and not rarely beating their normal companions because they are survivors and have the will to live. :)

Please also take the time to read this link here, which you may find very helpful. Checking around ribs for the cavy BMI will tell you when they have reached their optimum. The guide explains how all the different health and weight monitoring measures work and what each can contribute and what not, including weighing and checking for the BMI.
Wiebke

Thread 'Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support'

1 Weight and Weight Loss
- Why regular weight monitoring matters
- How weight changes over a lifetime
- How to weigh on your kitchen scales (with video)
- The weight loss rules
- How critical is the weight loss for my piggy?
- Possible causes for weight loss
2 Body Mass Index (BMI) or 'Heft'
- Why is understanding your piggy's weight so important?
- 'Average' weight vs. individual weight - the big trip up
- How to check for the BMI
3 The Weekly and the Daily...
  • Like

We offer a courtesy second opinion sexing service for new guinea pigs.
Wiebke

Thread 'Illustrated Sexing Guide'

1 How to Sex a Guinea Pig
- When do I need to check the sex?
- How do I make sure that I have got the gender 100% right?
- What are the secondary areas that require a hands-on check?
- Nipples
- Penis ridge
- Testicles and Castration
- Slit (What to check in sows and in boars)
2 How to Sex Babies after Birth and at Separation Age
- Newborn boar and sow (genitals)...
  • Like


PS: You may find this very practical information collection helpful into which nearly 20 years of collective forum experience with literally hundreds of thousands of questions have gone. We recommend bookmarking the link:
Wiebke

Thread 'Getting Started - Essential Information for New Owners'

Contents Overview
1 What This Collection Is About
2 Guinea Pigs as Pets
- Family and Classroom Pets
- Sourcing Your Guinea Pigs, Common Pitfalls and Your Customer Rights
- Pet Owners with Anxiety: Practical Tips for Sufferers and Supporters
- Naming your Guinea Pigs and Finding Out the Breed
- Guinea Pigs as a Species: Facts, Development and Social Aspects
3 Living Environment
- Housing (with sourcing tips)
- Bedding...
Click to expand...
Thank you for all the links, this is all so helpful!

I had considered getting some alfalfa hay for them, so I will definitely get that. I’m not in the Uk so it can be hard finding the good pellets brands here, but I’ll try and find some alfalfa based ones.

I’ve started given them a tbsp each day of our usual timothy hay based pellets (Science selective grain free), and they’ve taken well to that as well as veggies. Do you think it’s best to stick to that and maybe up their portions a bit if I can’t find any alfalfa based pellets?
I was considering maybe getting them some pellets for young/growing guinea pigs?

From what the previous owner told me about their diet, they’ve been fed fresh grass, hay, veggies and some kind of supermarket muesli mix. So not altogether bad but they still feel so thin.

Sorry for another long reply, they’re just constantly on my mind. Unfortunately I have had to look after a few sick piggies over the years, but this is my first time adopting “older” piggies and it just breaks my heart to see this neglect 💔
 
majasofia said:
Thank you for all the links, this is all so helpful!

I had considered getting some alfalfa hay for them, so I will definitely get that. I’m not in the Uk so it can be hard finding the good pellets brands here, but I’ll try and find some alfalfa based ones.

I’ve started given them a tbsp each day of our usual timothy hay based pellets (Science selective grain free), and they’ve taken well to that as well as veggies. Do you think it’s best to stick to that and maybe up their portions a bit if I can’t find any alfalfa based pellets?
I was considering maybe getting them some pellets for young/growing guinea pigs?

From what the previous owner told me about their diet, they’ve been fed fresh grass, hay, veggies and some kind of supermarket muesli mix. So not altogether bad but they still feel so thin.

Sorry for another long reply, they’re just constantly on my mind. Unfortunately I have had to look after a few sick piggies over the years, but this is my first time adopting “older” piggies and it just breaks my heart to see this neglect 💔
Click to expand...


Science Selective is perfectly fine and no change needed - just give two tablespoons per piggy per day for a month; sprinkle them around the cage to enourage them browsing and moving around. We have also included Versele Laga in our pellet guide.
:)
Flutterby

Thread 'Nugget Comparison Chart'

So after looking at the different foods available and finding that the information is spread all over the place I have started to compile a spreadsheet of the nuggets available here in the UK (and most in other countries). I am still gathering information but I have put the basics into a spreadsheet so that they can all be compared together.

If there is anything else you think I could add to the spread sheet, please let me know, or if you have any info about the blank spaces I'd be grateful too! Here it is so far...
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I would however not worry if you cannot get alfalfa. All pellets contain protein and by doubling the recommended amount for a few weeks you will get there as well. The actual extra amount is really, really small. The more regular grass hay they eat, the better. Alfalfa is a legume, not a grass hay and is only recommended for highly pregnant or badly neglected piggies, and then it should be more in the way of a supplementation rather than a temporary substitution.

What your piggies should really eat as much of as they can is grass based hay - timothy, meadow etc. Fresh growing grass is actually high in vitamin C, if they are actually used to eating it. It should however be unsprayed and free of dog pee, which is highly poisonous to guinea pigs.
Grass fibre is what the whole digestive system and the dental growth rate is laid out for; all the other food groups together only replace the 20-25% supplementary wild forage in the diet guinea pigs have evolved on. The more they eat of that, the better because it is highly nutritious. ;)
sport_billy

Thread 'A Comprehensive Hay Guide for Guinea Pigs (incl. providers in several countries)'

Overview
1 List of available types of hay (with description and pros/cons)
2 Hay comparison chart (with nutritional values explained)
3 Assessing the quality of hay
4 Storage
5 Suppliers (UK - USA - Aus)
6 Further information, hay racks and hay treats


This guide has been written by @G&C in 2019 and updated for UK sources by @Lorcan in 2023.
The forum would like to thank them for all their hard work in researching and producing this very helpful and thorough guide!


Hay is basically grass that...
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Can you please have a look at their incisors? If the edges are even and clean, the grinding molars and premolars at the back are fine and the whole system is perfectly balanced. If the edge is slanted, this points to a one sided source of pain or discomfort and eventually overgrowth from uneven chewing. If there is a v-shaped dip, it means restricted mouth movement, most likely from overgrowing premolar and molar spurs on both sides. Jagged edges point towards irregular chewing. Inward pointing and or discoloured incisors are a sign of badly overgrown teeth at the back and an inability to grind down any food.
This is just a rough little guide but it can help you to evaluate whether a dental problem arising from their malnutrition could be in play and it is something to make your vet aware of - also of the fact that the self-sharpening incisors are not the main problem but what is happening with the back teeth.
Guinea pig dentals unfortunately don't feature on a vet's curriculum, considering that guinea pigs don't much in the first place.

If they can still eat fine then that is a huge potential headache eliminated. :)

Sorry if you are finding it a bit much right now but I am trying to evaluate some things that not every vet will necessary know about or think of checking properly so you can make sure that all the important points are covered.

It is a lot of information and a huge learning curve but you will get there. Just the fact that they are warm, safe, clean and have plenty of food to nibble on is beyond their wildest dreams.
 
majasofia said:
I tried my best to get pictures, but it was hard! I understand it’s probably not possible to say much from these, but any insights are really helpful

It’s pretty much in the same area on both girls, and just on one single paw. So it’s not right in the middle of the paw, but I’m not sure if it’s “enough” to the side that they wouldn’t put weight on it?
In general the paws feel soft, it’s just these specific areas of harder skin.
Click to expand...

I agree - it is not in the classic bumblefoot infection areas and it also doesn't look like proper spurs. It could be rather injuries or abrasions from things like a totally sunsuitable wire bottom cage/pen?
 
Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, this forum is such an amazing resource!
Their incisors look great and they love their timothy hay. They both are really hungry, I take that as a good sign!

I was also thinking they might have lived on a wire floor, I have only seen a photo of the cage they were kept in when they were outdoors, but it looks like the kind that would have wire flooring… Poor babies 😔

I will take my time and read through all the links and keep you updated on how everything goes! I’m sure the girls are so grateful for all the help they’re getting, I’ll attach a picture so you can see them 😊
 

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majasofia said:
Thank you for sharing all your knowledge, this forum is such an amazing resource!
Their incisors look great and they love their timothy hay. They both are really hungry, I take that as a good sign!

I was also thinking they might have lived on a wire floor, I have only seen a photo of the cage they were kept in when they were outdoors, but it looks like the kind that would have wire flooring… Poor babies 😔

I will take my time and read through all the links and keep you updated on how everything goes! I’m sure the girls are so grateful for all the help they’re getting, I’ll attach a picture so you can see them 😊
Click to expand...

Thank you. That is great to know. Neglect can take many forms and can have many different consequences. :(

Hopefully your good care will make all the difference and a vet check can find any less obvious problems. Just give them plenty of food and they are going to fill out on their own. Portion control can kick in once they have the right amount of meat on their ribs; right now is party time for them. But as they look rather young, they can hopefully make up for lost time and have a long and happy life with you.

Take your time to read the guides and any further information but we are also here for you for any questions along the way. Little or large - we will answer them all in a friendly and helpful way, for moral support whenever you need it and for helping you find the best solution for your personal circumstances, availabilities and possibilities.

If you bookmark the link to this thread then you can pick it up again for any updates and further support. It does help us to keep ongoing cases together so we can quickly remind ourselves of your circumstances and background and it will also help other people doing searches on our forum if they can see how a case develops instead of being just a quick question and answer without taking the background into account.

We have several rescue volunteers on this forum who are familiar with neglect and quite a number of members who have adopted rescued guinea pigs from a neglect background who can help you with their experience and practical advice to make things work for yourself.
Our forum ethos is to be a friendly and supportive place. We respect the owner's needs and feelings as much as those of their guinea pigs. Welfare is different for us all; it is a journey and an aim but most of all, it is all the little things that each of us can do and it is not just the preserve of the privileged few. As a forum, we are independent of social media and have full control so we can make it the place we all want it to be. There is also a lively friendly community on here that is open to everybody wherever on the world.

Your girls are so lucky to have met you - and you will in time feel blessed to have met them once they give you the priceless joy of trusting you.
 
I agree that it doesn't look like bumble foot but I would keep am eye on their feet because bumble foot can develop pretty quickly.
It's great that they have found a loving home with you!
 
A little update to say the girls are doing great!
They’ve been here a week now and have started to gain some weight. Ruth, who’s a tiny little piggie, has gone from 685 g to 706 g. Harriet has gone from 798 g to 825 g. They’re also starting to get used to me, Ruth even dares to eat out of my hand. Harriet is more reserved, but she seems a lot more relaxed and no longer freeze up as soon as I enter the room. They’re already bringing so much joy to our family <3

Thank you again for all the support, it’s really helped ease my worries about them. I’m keeping close attention to their paws, but I think they’re starting to look a little better.
 
majasofia said:
A little update to say the girls are doing great!
They’ve been here a week now and have started to gain some weight. Ruth, who’s a tiny little piggie, has gone from 685 g to 706 g. Harriet has gone from 798 g to 825 g. They’re also starting to get used to me, Ruth even dares to eat out of my hand. Harriet is more reserved, but she seems a lot more relaxed and no longer freeze up as soon as I enter the room. They’re already bringing so much joy to our family <3

Thank you again for all the support, it’s really helped ease my worries about them. I’m keeping close attention to their paws, but I think they’re starting to look a little better.
Click to expand...

Thank you. That is great news!

Just give them time, your love and your good normal daily care. Brace for a sudden larger weight gain one the nutrients have had time filter through and build up in the body. It can take several weeks or even months but that is when you know that your measures are working and that your girls have made good the ravages of the past. This is now the uphill slog. Keep reminding yourself that you are on the right track and that your two girls are truly happy with their new home if they are starting to come round so quickly. :)

I am looking forward to seeing them fill out in their own good time.
 
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