Advice for first time owner, please :)

RemAndWil

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Hello!
First and foremost, please don't be unnecessarily mean, I am obviously open to suggestions and such, but I'm already anxious about asking for advice as it is, and I'm not looking to be possibly bullied.
Anywho, I'm a first time guinea pig owner, and have two male piggies, both from the same litter and currently a year and 9 months old (they're born on May 4th). I understand from previous research that they're currently still in their hormonal teenager stage until they hit 2 years (from what I've read, please correct me if I'm wrong), but I have a question to do with the dominance establishment. They're constantly chasing each other and mounting - which I know is normal, but it's happening so much that I'm not sure if it's excessive? It's happening so much that it's affecting my sleep because I have their cage in my room due to the other animals we have. There's been a few times that they've started chattering teeth at each other, and I have interviened through fear of a fight possibly breaking out, however there hasn't been any actual fights. Is this normal? Or should I seperate them?
Thank you for your time and any advice, please enjoy the rest of your day/afternoon/night!
 
Hi there and I am sure you will feel supported on here by the wonderful members so try not to be too anxious. Have you managed to read the boar behaviour guide on here at all?
 
 
Welcome to the forum

Please don’t worry, nobody is going to be mean to you here. We are a friendly a supportive group who will do what we can to help you.

First a few questions:

1. What are the measurements of their cage?
Two boys need a 180x60cm.
2. Is there multiple of everything in the cage?
Two of everything means they don’t have to battle for resources. Make sure there are two hay piles (we don’t recommend the use of hay racks) and two water bottles.
We do not recommend food bowls are used. They can mean that one pig can try to hog both bowls; but also using a bowl makes eating a mindless activity. We recommend veg and their one tablespoon of pellets each is scattered around the cage or in loose hay piles. This encourages natural foraging abilities and makes meal times
Mentally stimulating, encourages natural behaviours and means one pig cannot food hog.
3. Hides - make sure you only use hide houses which have two doors in them. Single exit hides and pigloos mean there is a risk of a fight occurring inside. If they both try to go into the same hide which only has one door then one pig is blocking the door meaning the other can’t get out. That is a common flashpoint for a piggy to get defensive and then injuries can occur inside.

You are right, your piggies are teenagers and will be considered so until they are 14 months of age. However that doesn’t mean that at that age they suddenly stop being hormonal. It will settle at around that age but you will still see dominance displays throughout life and adults still get hormone spikes. It does ease off once they get to 4+ years and they become more about companionship than hierarchy and dominance.
Hormonal displays and dominance behaviours are very normal

At 9-10 months of age, there is another hormone spike. It isn’t quite as big as the one at 6 months and the 9 month spike doesn’t typically break a bond unless there have always been underlying problems.

The behaviours you are seeing are normal. When you have two boys the same age then the hormones are exacerbated and it can just make things a bit more intense as they are both going through it at the same time.
What you should not do is step in for normal dominance because that can actually make things worse. If you separate unnecessarily then when they go back together it will cause a new round of dominance and consequently increase what you are seeing.

There are only two occasions upon which you step in and separate permanently - if you see an actual fight which causes injury or if you determine it is actual bullying. Both these are bond breaking and mean the separation must be permanent and you can’t ever reunite them once this type of separation has occurred.

An actual fight unmistakable.
Bullying is a sustained set of what appear to be dominance behaviours but the behaviour has actually gone beyond dominance.
If the behaviour becomes so relentless that the piggy being chased is never allowed to rest. As soon as the piggy tries to settle, the bully is after them. The bullied pig may be constantly chased out of hides (although you do need to remember that the dominant gets their pick of the best hide (best is everything) so being chased out is a hide on occasion isn’t necessarily a sign of bullying).
The bullied pig may also be chased away from food. So you may well see weight loss at the routine weekly weight checks.

If you are worried about their bond and you do feel the chasing and mounting has gone beyond normal, then you can carry out a one time trial separation.
You separate them for a few days (but their cages need to be side by side) so they can settle.
After those few days you put both pigs into a neutral territory bonding pen (you cannot just reunite them back in their normal cage as it’ll by then become the territory of just one of them), with just water and hay piles (do not add any hides at this point).
Reuniting them in neutral territory will allow them to make their decision as to whether they want to be together. They will either reeestablish their bond with normal dominance behaviours; or they will reject each other (possibly fight).
If they want to be together and all goes well, then after a few hours in neutral territory you can clean out their normal cage, remove dividers and put them back in to it. You don’t then separate them again.
If it doesn’t go well on neutral, then that is them giving their answer about their bond. If that occurs then sadly they will need to go back and remain in separate cages permanently.

The guides below explain more about boars in general but also the bonds in trouble guide explains how to determine a dysfunctional bond.

I hope that helps

 
Hello and welcome to the forum. We are a friendly bunch who love to help and also drool over piggy pictures. Hint hint. Please feel free to post some photos of your boys if you want. I have two boys called Pebble and Patrick.
 
Welcome to the forum

Please don’t worry, nobody is going to be mean to you here. We are a friendly a supportive group who will do what we can to help you.

First a few questions:

1. What are the measurements of their cage?
Two boys need a 180x60cm.
2. Is there multiple of everything in the cage?
Two of everything means they don’t have to battle for resources. Make sure there are two hay piles (we don’t recommend the use of hay racks) and two water bottles.
We do not recommend food bowls are used. They can mean that one pig can try to hog both bowls; but also using a bowl makes eating a mindless activity. We recommend veg and their one tablespoon of pellets each is scattered around the cage or in loose hay piles. This encourages natural foraging abilities and makes meal times
Mentally stimulating, encourages natural behaviours and means one pig cannot food hog.
3. Hides - make sure you only use hide houses which have two doors in them. Single exit hides and pigloos mean there is a risk of a fight occurring inside. If they both try to go into the same hide which only has one door then one pig is blocking the door meaning the other can’t get out. That is a common flashpoint for a piggy to get defensive and then injuries can occur inside.

You are right, your piggies are teenagers and will be considered so until they are 14 months of age. However that doesn’t mean that at that age they suddenly stop being hormonal. It will settle at around that age but you will still see dominance displays throughout life and adults still get hormone spikes. It does ease off once they get to 4+ years and they become more about companionship than hierarchy and dominance.
Hormonal displays and dominance behaviours are very normal

At 9-10 months of age, there is another hormone spike. It isn’t quite as big as the one at 6 months and the 9 month spike doesn’t typically break a bond unless there have always been underlying problems.

The behaviours you are seeing are normal. When you have two boys the same age then the hormones are exacerbated and it can just make things a bit more intense as they are both going through it at the same time.
What you should not do is step in for normal dominance because that can actually make things worse. If you separate unnecessarily then when they go back together it will cause a new round of dominance and consequently increase what you are seeing.

There are only two occasions upon which you step in and separate permanently - if you see an actual fight which causes injury or if you determine it is actual bullying. Both these are bond breaking and mean the separation must be permanent and you can’t ever reunite them once this type of separation has occurred.

An actual fight unmistakable.
Bullying is a sustained set of what appear to be dominance behaviours but the behaviour has actually gone beyond dominance.
If the behaviour becomes so relentless that the piggy being chased is never allowed to rest. As soon as the piggy tries to settle, the bully is after them. The bullied pig may be constantly chased out of hides (although you do need to remember that the dominant gets their pick of the best hide (best is everything) so being chased out is a hide on occasion isn’t necessarily a sign of bullying).
The bullied pig may also be chased away from food. So you may well see weight loss at the routine weekly weight checks.

If you are worried about their bond and you do feel the chasing and mounting has gone beyond normal, then you can carry out a one time trial separation.
You separate them for a few days (but their cages need to be side by side) so they can settle.
After those few days you put both pigs into a neutral territory bonding pen (you cannot just reunite them back in their normal cage as it’ll by then become the territory of just one of them), with just water and hay piles (do not add any hides at this point).
Reuniting them in neutral territory will allow them to make their decision as to whether they want to be together. They will either reeestablish their bond with normal dominance behaviours; or they will reject each other (possibly fight).
If they want to be together and all goes well, then after a few hours in neutral territory you can clean out their normal cage, remove dividers and put them back in to it. You don’t then separate them again.
If it doesn’t go well on neutral, then that is them giving their answer about their bond. If that occurs then sadly they will need to go back and remain in separate cages permanently.

The guides below explain more about boars in general but also the bonds in trouble guide explains how to determine a dysfunctional bond.

I hope that helps

Hi!
Sorry for the late reply, I managed to get some sleep eventually, but thank you for all the information, I'll definitely have a read through all of the threads a bit later! :)
1. I didn't get the cage, so I'm not sure what the cage size is, but it's a two storey indoor cage by Ferplast I think?
2. I do have multiple of everything in the cage (except for a few of their favourite toys that I have to replace), and in terms of the hay, I've just been filling out one of the trays as I thought it would be easier for them and calm them a bit if they knew how much of it there was. (Surprising this did help a little bit, not quite sure why - though I do use it for them to forage for their treats now as well!)
I wasn't aware of the bowl thing however, so will definitely remove them. Veggies I have just been putting on a plastic plate to make clean up a bit easier, but it's still easy for them to eat from it. With what you mentioned about the bowls, should I just ditch the plate as well?
3. Currently I have two hides, one that I plan on replacing because they've had it since they were young and it's not staying up as well as it used to. And the other came with the cage. Both of which only have one entry. So, I'll see if I can find some two entry ones to replace both of these with as soon as possible. Do you have any suggestions for hides that are good?

Again, thank you for all the information!
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. We are a friendly bunch who love to help and also drool over piggy pictures. Hint hint. Please feel free to post some photos of your boys if you want. I have two boys called Pebble and Patrick.
Pebble and Patrick are cute names!
One guinea pig is my mother's (the ginger boi), she called him Wilson after Friday Night Dinner. He's a little menace with too much confidence, he tries to square up to all the other animals lol.
I named my one (the white and grey/brown one) Remmington after the singer from Palaye Royale. Though I was originally thinking Regulus. He's much more skittish, so I don't have as many non blurry pictures of him.
 

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As your piggies are boars I am afraid a two storey ferplast style cage is not going to be big enough - there are no commercial cages which meet the size needed for two boys. The biggest ferplast cage is a single storey ferplast plaza 160 But as it suggests it is 160cm so is only just over boar minimum size (it’s fine for some
Pairs and I have used that for a well settled older boar pair of my own but I personally don’t like it for hormonal teens) - 180x60cm is ideal.
Lack of space will raise tensions and put pressures on a boar bond.
Two storey can also bring its own issues. Piggies are not natural climbers and need their cage to meet size requirements on the e single bottom level. Upper levels don’t count towards the cage size. The other issue is the ramp itself - one piggy can claim it at their own territory which raises potential bond issues if they don’t want the other on it.

I would recommend that you get them a bigger cage and ideally that it is A c&c cage. These are much better for boys as they are big enough and can be customised as needed. You simply fix grids together - you will need a cage which is 5 grids by 2 grids to meet size requirements. I will add some
Cage links below so you can see what I mean.

When changing cage, it will be seen as a new territory which will cause a new round of dominance. Piggies must reestablish their bond in any new environment and this takes around two weeks.
To help ease the process it is recommended that you use soiled bedding from the current cage in the new cage for the first few days at least. This helps them recognise it as their territory as it still smells of them.
The same goes for cage cleaning - if you clean the whole cage in one go then you are completely wiping their scent out. That can send them into a dominance frenzy while they reestablish. It is recommended that you change the bedding in just half the cage at a time (and then do the other half a day or two later) so that some of their scent remains.

Personally I would not use the plate - I would just throw the veg in and leave it where it lands. It’s all part of foraging, encouraging natural searching for food and keeps them occupied. Eating off a plate still means they are just sat in one place eating without being mentally stimulated.

I use wooden bendy log bridges as hides - I will add a picture below.

I see the grey ledge/hide on your picture - we recommend that they are removed from the cage.

 

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I would also just say that there is too much carrot and fruit provided.

Just one round slice of carrot per pig and given just once a week is plenty. Fruit and carrot are too sugary and don’t form part of their natural diet. One sugary item can be given in very small amounts and no more than once a week - is fine as a very occasional treat.

The four safe daily veg are bell pepper, lettuce, cucumber and coriander.
Everything else should be in moderation and rotation.

Hay should be provided in large, unlimited amounts and ideally at both ends of the cage so
They can eat apart if they want to

 
I would also just say that there is too much carrot and fruit provided.

Just one round slice of carrot per pig and given just once a week is plenty. Fruit and carrot are too sugary and don’t form part of their natural diet. One sugary item can be given in very small amounts and no more than once a week - is fine as a very occasional treat.

The four safe daily veg are bell pepper, lettuce, cucumber and coriander.
Everything else should be in moderation and rotation.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that for the carrot. I don't do it often for them anyway, but will definitely cut back more on it! I usually always do lettuce with cucumber then rotate some broccoli and bell peppers. As for the fruit, I rarely do that as well, mostly just as an occasional treat.
 
As your piggies are boars I am afraid a two storey ferplast style cage is not going to be big enough - there are no commercial cages which meet the size needed for two boys. The biggest ferplast cage is a single storey ferplast plaza 160 But as it suggests it is 160cm so is only just over boar minimum size (it’s fine for some
Pairs and I have used that for a well settled older boar pair of my own but I personally don’t like it for hormonal teens) - 180x60cm is ideal.
Lack of space will raise tensions and put pressures on a boar bond.
Two storey can also bring its own issues. Piggies are not natural climbers and need their cage to meet size requirements on the e single bottom level. Upper levels don’t count towards the cage size. The other issue is the ramp itself - one piggy can claim it at their own territory which raises potential bond issues if they don’t want the other on it.

I would recommend that you get them a bigger cage and ideally that it is A c&c cage. These are much better for boys as they are big enough and can be customised as needed. You simply fix grids together - you will need a cage which is 5 grids by 2 grids to meet size requirements. I will add some
Cage links below so you can see what I mean.

When changing cage, it will be seen as a new territory which will cause a new round of dominance. Piggies must reestablish their bond in any new environment and this takes around two weeks.
To help ease the process it is recommended that you use soiled bedding from the current cage in the new cage for the first few days at least. This helps them recognise it as their territory as it still smells of them.
The same goes for cage cleaning - if you clean the whole cage in one go then you are completely wiping their scent out. That can send them into a dominance frenzy while they reestablish. It is recommended that you change the bedding in just half the cage at a time (and then do the other half a day or two later) so that some of their scent remains.

Personally I would not use the plate - I would just throw the veg in and leave it where it lands. It’s all part of foraging, encouraging natural searching for food and keeps them occupied. Eating off a plate still means they are just sat in one place eating without being mentally stimulated.

I use wooden bendy log bridges as hides - I will add a picture below.

I see the grey ledge/hide on your picture - we recommend that they are removed from the cage.

I apologise for if I sound stupid, but for the c&c cage thing, how do you make it so that no pee goes on the floor? I mentioned these quite a while ago to my mother, but she said that would be a problem.
 
Bell pepper can be an everyday veg as it provides a good dose of vit c. Broccoli is more of a once a week veg as, with all brassicas, it can be a bloat risk
 
Most people use something called correx - you can buy it on amazon or sign shops sometimes sell it - it’s a plastic sheet which goes inside the cage and you then put your bedding on top of that.
If you click on the member gallery link you can see it on the pictures - sometimes white but they can be brightly coloured!

You could also use lay plastic sheeting down to protect the floor and then put normal bedding on top of that.
 
As your piggies are boars I am afraid a two storey ferplast style cage is not going to be big enough - there are no commercial cages which meet the size needed for two boys. The biggest ferplast cage is a single storey ferplast plaza 160 But as it suggests it is 160cm so is only just over boar minimum size (it’s fine for some
Pairs and I have used that for a well settled older boar pair of my own but I personally don’t like it for hormonal teens) - 180x60cm is ideal.
Lack of space will raise tensions and put pressures on a boar bond.
Two storey can also bring its own issues. Piggies are not natural climbers and need their cage to meet size requirements on the e single bottom level. Upper levels don’t count towards the cage size. The other issue is the ramp itself - one piggy can claim it at their own territory which raises potential bond issues if they don’t want the other on it.

I would recommend that you get them a bigger cage and ideally that it is A c&c cage. These are much better for boys as they are big enough and can be customised as needed. You simply fix grids together - you will need a cage which is 5 grids by 2 grids to meet size requirements. I will add some
Cage links below so you can see what I mean.

When changing cage, it will be seen as a new territory which will cause a new round of dominance. Piggies must reestablish their bond in any new environment and this takes around two weeks.
To help ease the process it is recommended that you use soiled bedding from the current cage in the new cage for the first few days at least. This helps them recognise it as their territory as it still smells of them.
The same goes for cage cleaning - if you clean the whole cage in one go then you are completely wiping their scent out. That can send them into a dominance frenzy while they reestablish. It is recommended that you change the bedding in just half the cage at a time (and then do the other half a day or two later) so that some of their scent remains.

Personally I would not use the plate - I would just throw the veg in and leave it where it lands. It’s all part of foraging, encouraging natural searching for food and keeps them occupied. Eating off a plate still means they are just sat in one place eating without being mentally stimulated.

I use wooden bendy log bridges as hides - I will add a picture below.

I see the grey ledge/hide on your picture - we recommend that they are removed from the cage.

Apologies for if this is a bit imposing, but could you maybe share a picture of your set up for your guinea pigs? So that I sort of have inspiration and a reference on how to improve.
 
While I absolutely can post pictures of my set up, my piggies actually live out in my shed so I do things a bit differently to an indoor set up; and the two piggies I have left (the others having passed away over the last year) don’t live together as their bond did break down as teenagers.

The pictures in our members cage gallery
(I’d go to the end of the thread for the more recent images) will be more relevant to you than my set up will be.

 
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