Advice after guinea pig deaths.

[arabella]

Hello, I am new here and new to guinea pig keeping but I'd be very grateful if I could have some advice on what to do about my pigs which keep dying.
We got 2 pigs (one a few months old, one younger) from a (possibly not as reputable as I thought) breeder in November. They seemed to thrive until February when the smaller one seemed to go off his food. We took him to the vet and he was diagnosed with possibly a brain abscess ? pasturella and he died the next day. We were told by the people in pets at home that the remaining pig would suffer if he didn't have a new friend asap so we got 2 more (small ones so presumably quite young). This was a month ago and over the last few days we noticed one of them was easy to catch so we took him to the vet today and they euthanised him, diagnosing possibly a bowel problem. (He was thin and his bowel felt thickened apparently). He had a very hoarse wheek and I have noticed that the other 2 though they seem healthy and are eating and running around normally both are a bit hoarse too. The smaller new one is not significantly bigger than when we got it a month ago. I'm worried they will go the same way. Would it be irresponsible to treat them with the antibiotic we have left over from the first guinea pig? I am going to get a new cage tomorrow in case it's contaminated in some way. Could this be vitamin C deficiency? I'm concerned we haven't been feeding them enough fresh veggies.
Any thoughts at all would be very gratefully received. I have to tell my daughter tomorrow that we've lost another one and I'm hoping I'll have a plan before I do.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m so sorry to hear this.

Please switch from routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh them daily so you can monitor hay intake and step in with syringe feeding if they are not eating enough hay. Hay being the most important part of their food intake.
Please also see a vet for diagnosis and treatment, and don’t be tempted to treat on spec.

Vitamin c deficiency risk is low as hay, veg and pellets all contain vitamin c, so even if they weren’t eating enough high vit c veg, they should still be getting enough elsewhere in the diet.

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Weight - Monitoring and Management

Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

In terms of the cage, given a boar pair need more space than a sow pair, do ensure if you are going to get a new cage, that it measures 180x60cm which is the recommended size for two boars. However, and unfortunately, there are not any commercial cages which measure this size and boar owners tend to go towards c&c cages for this reason - 5x2 being the recommended size for two boars.

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Cage Size Guide

 

[weepweeps]

Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m so sorry you have lost two piggies recently. A vet check would be a good idea to either put your mind at rest or deal with any issues. Weighing them daily is also a good idea so you can monitor their eating and health. I wouldn’t give any antibiotics unless a vet says they are needed. Good luck.

 

[arabella]

Thank you so much for your speedy replies. I will start weighing them. They're in a hutch which is double level so quite a lot of space at the moment (they were meant to be living outside but it's been too cold). If I get a new one I'll make sure it's as big as I can fit. This forum is amazing.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you so much for your speedy replies. I will start weighing them. They're in a hutch which is double level so quite a lot of space at the moment (they were meant to be living outside but it's been too cold). If I get a new one I'll make sure it's as big as I can fit. This forum is amazing.

Definitely weigh them and step in with syringe feeding if they are losing weight.
Please do see a vet. If there is something going on, then the sooner they are diagnosed and treated the better.

Do read the green links i have added in. They provide emergency care information. The diet link may also be useful if you feel they may not be getting enough veg.
There is also the boar specific guide which explains boar behaviour, teenage months etc.

Double storey/upper floors doesn’t count towards or double the cage size as it is only the bottom level which counts as piggies aren’t natural climbers. A hutch still needs to be a 6ft hutch (180x60cm) for a boar pair (150x60cm as a minimum but this is often too small for boars, particularly teen boars), even if it is a double storey

 

[arabella]

I have read your links Piggies and Buns, thank you and I take that into account when I buy another cage tomorrow. I can't find any advice on failure to gain weight in a pig that should be growing. Do you know if that exists somewhere? I'm a doctor so I know in children it's different depending on age and I don't know exactly how old my pig is. I've just weighed them both and i'll do the same tomorrow. They seem pretty lively but are definitely a bit hoarse.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I have read your links Piggies and Buns, thank you and I take that into account when I buy another cage tomorrow. I can't find any advice on failure to gain weight in a pig that should be growing. Do you know if that exists somewhere? I'm a doctor so I know in children it's different depending on age and I don't know exactly how old my pig is. I've just weighed them both and i'll do the same tomorrow. They seem pretty lively but are definitely a bit hoarse.

If a piggy isn’t gaining weight, then it’s because they are not eating enough hay, but reason behind them not eating enough hay will need to be diagnosed by a vet. Hay is 75/80% of the daily food intake so a piggy who isn’t eating enough will quickly lose weight.
There is no weight to age guide for piggies as they vary so widely. All you can do is check they are gaining weight well and check their heft (which is covered by the weight management guide I linked in earlier); switching from routine weekly to daily weight checks where there are health concerns and step in with syringe feeding if they are not eating enough hay and therefore not gaining or indeed are losing weight.

 

[arabella]

If a piggy isn’t gaining weight, then it’s because they are not eating enough hay, but reason behind them not eating enough hay will need to be diagnosed by a vet. Hay is 75/80% of the daily food intake so a piggy who isn’t eating enough will quickly lose weight.
There is no weight to age guide for piggies as they vary so widely. All you can do is check they are gaining weight well and check their heft (which is covered by the weight management guide I linked in earlier); switching from routine weekly to daily weight checks where there are health concerns and step in with syringe feeding if they are not eating enough hay and therefore not gaining or indeed are losing weight.

ok excellent, I'll hope the numbers go up for the little one and don't go down for the big one and I'll take them to a vet asap if they are off track.

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm so sorry for your losses. These things happen to us all x

I'd be wary of treating on spec with antibiotics. Piggies can be sensitive creatures and some of them go right off their food during antibiotic treatment which can be an added complication. Mine haven't had that issue but mine have always been full grown when they get here. If they stop eating for any length of time they go into gut stasis which will rapidly kill them - even if they then start fighting off what was originally wrong! So for instance an upper resp infection (which are not uncommon) might make them feel unwell and although you see them eat and drink it's not as much as usual - poop output is down - poop quality is poor - and they don't gain/don't maintain/start to lose weight. If this goes on unnoticed for a while the gut slows they are at risk of stasis... an unexpected dose of antibiotics can wipe out the poor gut flora with lethal effects. A good vet will take all these things into consideration (prescribing according to age and body weight etc) and can also offer gut stimulants and painkiller/anti-inflammatory to get them through antibiotics if needed. Also some ABs are not given to younger pigs.

However, if you're looking to save a bit of money you can always take the previous meds along to the vet appointment and see if they are suitable if the same thing is going to be prescribed anyway. They'll check the dates (and also what the other piggy died of - if it's contagious they will likely say don't risk it). Check out the recommended vet links above - they are not all expensive specialists - some are just normal vets that understand pigs (if you're near Northampton, you're laughing). You seem to have had 2 quite 'unusual' fatalities in young pigs within a short time which is possibly just bad luck (again, there are folks on here who've had some terrible weeks/months with losses) but I'd be a bit wary of going back to the same vet again... do they know their stuff?!

 

[Merab]

Welcome to the forum and I am so sorry for your losses.
I echo what has already been said .

 

[arabella]

I'm so sorry for your losses. These things happen to us all x

I'd be wary of treating on spec with antibiotics. Piggies can be sensitive creatures and some of them go right off their food during antibiotic treatment which can be an added complication. Mine haven't had that issue but mine have always been full grown when they get here. If they stop eating for any length of time they go into gut stasis which will rapidly kill them - even if they then start fighting off what was originally wrong! So for instance an upper resp infection (which are not uncommon) might make them feel unwell and although you see them eat and drink it's not as much as usual - poop output is down - poop quality is poor - and they don't gain/don't maintain/start to lose weight. If this goes on unnoticed for a while the gut slows they are at risk of stasis... an unexpected dose of antibiotics can wipe out the poor gut flora with lethal effects. A good vet will take all these things into consideration (prescribing according to age and body weight etc) and can also offer gut stimulants and painkiller/anti-inflammatory to get them through antibiotics if needed. Also some ABs are not given to younger pigs.

However, if you're looking to save a bit of money you can always take the previous meds along to the vet appointment and see if they are suitable if the same thing is going to be prescribed anyway. They'll check the dates (and also what the other piggy died of - if it's contagious they will likely say don't risk it). Check out the recommended vet links above - they are not all expensive specialists - some are just normal vets that understand pigs (if you're near Northampton, you're laughing). You seem to have had 2 quite 'unusual' fatalities in young pigs within a short time which is possibly just bad luck (again, there are folks on here who've had some terrible weeks/months with losses) but I'd be a bit wary of going back to the same vet again... do they know their stuff?!

I have always thought our vets were good with our other animals. We saw 2 different ones this time (and my husband took today's so I'm not sure he really gave the whole story of the first one). We are not near northampton sadly but I will have a very low threshold for going back with the remaining two if anything else is off. I'm glad you think this is unusual and not just part of guinea pig keeping. Not sure I could cope with this level of loss ongoing.

 

[arabella]

Welcome to the forum and I am so sorry for your losses.
I echo what has already been said .

thank you.

 

[Brooke03]

Fr

I have read your links Piggies and Buns, thank you and I take that into account when I buy another cage tomorrow. I can't find any advice on failure to gain weight in a pig that should be growing. Do you know if that exists somewhere? I'm a doctor so I know in children it's different depending on age and I don't know exactly how old my pig is. I've just weighed them both and i'll do the same tomorrow. They seem pretty lively but are definitely a bit hoarse.

ive Noticed that guinea pigs take around a year to be full grown. They usually grow somewhat fast in the first 2-3 months then they grow much more slowly after that. It’s possible the people who bred your piggies were irresponsible and let inbreeding happen and/or have very poor sanitary conditions. Which usually causes uri’s to develop in their habitats before you get them and lots of them have horrible immune systems and birth defects which makes them pass within 3 years of some type of organ failure/issue. I’ve gotten a guinea pig from petco and it had a uri when I got them. They recovered but died a year later from a stroke of some sort and I think this guinea pig was somewhat inbred or had a birth defect.

 

[arabella]

Fr

ive Noticed that guinea pigs take around a year to be full grown. They usually grow somewhat fast in the first 2-3 months then they grow much more slowly after that. It’s possible the people who bred your piggies were irresponsible and let inbreeding happen and/or have very poor sanitary conditions. Which usually causes uri’s to develop in their habitats before you get them and lots of them have horrible immune systems and birth defects which makes them pass within 3 years of some type of organ failure/issue. I’ve gotten a guinea pig from petco and it had a uri when I got them. They recovered but died a year later from a stroke of some sort and I think this guinea pig was somewhat inbred or had a birth defect.

Thank you. I do worry that my first pigs were from a bad breeder and that the problem of the second one might have been caught from the first one. We have done some weights and things seem to be stable. They are eating well and running about but are still hoarse.