Adding a new sow to a herd of 4 sows and a neutered boar.

Ali-bongo

Ali-bongo

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👋🏻 hi, been sometime since I last posted

Looonnng story short. I am a herd mum!
I have 4 girls and a neutered boy.
I have recently taken on a skinny unwanted sow that was supposed to be a year old but feet and nails look like a much younger pig.
Her story dosnt add up, it’s all a bit of a mystery! anyway she’s here, she’s safe, warm and loved.
She been vet checked and has a clean bill of health and some ivermectin for mites.
She is underweight at 631g. I’ve had her houses separately for two weeks to ensure she hasnt got anything she can pass on to my herd.
Now I have her living in an Adjoining pen next to my 5, so they can all get to know each other through the bars and I can keep her comfortable with company while I continue to work on her health as.
She has caused a stir in my sleepy herd but all seems fine so far. I have been watching and watching all the information files on here about all subjects to reinforce my understanding. This is not my first rodeo! But I can never stop learning or re reading.
Question 1)
How long shall I allow her to stay in the separate adjoining pen before introducing her to the group?
I feel sorry for her as it’s 5-1! so as much preparation and time to hopefully get a good outcome and join my herd is my goal.
x
 
Ali-bongo said:
👋🏻 hi, been sometime since I last posted

Looonnng story short. I am a herd mum!
I have 4 girls and a neutered boy.
I have recently taken on a skinny unwanted sow that was supposed to be a year old but feet and nails look like a much younger pig.
Her story dosnt add up, it’s all a bit of a mystery! anyway she’s here, she’s safe, warm and loved.
She been vet checked and has a clean bill of health and some ivermectin for mites.
She is underweight at 631g. I’ve had her houses separately for two weeks to ensure she hasnt got anything she can pass on to my herd.
Now I have her living in an Adjoining pen next to my 5, so they can all get to know each other through the bars and I can keep her comfortable with company while I continue to work on her health as.
She has caused a stir in my sleepy herd but all seems fine so far. I have been watching and watching all the information files on here about all subjects to reinforce my understanding. This is not my first rodeo! But I can never stop learning or re reading.
Question 1)
How long shall I allow her to stay in the separate adjoining pen before introducing her to the group?
I feel sorry for her as it’s 5-1! so as much preparation and time to hopefully get a good outcome and join my herd is my goal.
x
Click to expand...

There is no fixed period - I usually wait until the newbie seems comfortable and is coordinating their life style with the other side through the bars; I also try to feed along the bars during that period. Ideally there are piggy washes through the bars.

However, it all comes down to the dynamics that develop during the bonding and that is something you cannot steer. You can only create the best possible conditions but in the end it all comes down to whether the newbie is welcome and willing to fit in. A larger group has more weight and a bigger draw for adding a single but fear-aggression and dominance issue can still trip up a bonding.

All the best!
 
Wiebke said:
There is no fixed period - I usually wait until the newbie seems comfortable and is coordinating their life style with the other side through the bars; I also try to feed along the bars during that period. Ideally there are piggy washes through the bars.

However, it all comes down to the dynamics that develop during the bonding and that is something you cannot steer. You can only create the best possible conditions but in the end it all comes down to whether the newbie is welcome and willing to fit in. A larger group has more weight and a bigger draw for adding a single but fear-aggression and dominance issue can still trip up a bonding.

All the best!
Click to expand...
Thankyou Weibke
With fear aggression, if I encounter it will time help her to be less aggressive?
 
Ali-bongo said:
Thank you so much!
How did you learn so much? We need a chapter on you! 😂 fascinating read!
Click to expand...

I've grown up with piggies about 50 years back and have come back to having them again big time nearly 20 years as an adult in all sorts of combinations from pairs to groups - I think by now over 80 piggies just as an adult. Most of what I have learned has been by observation and the hard way by trial and error.
I have done way over 100 bondings with my own piggies by now; both successful ones and unsuccessful ones, so I have had plenty of opportunity to test all the tricks in the book as to what works and what doesn't and also to become familiar with the whole bonding process and how it actually runs in stages and in fact takes around two weeks rather than just a few hours until it is all settled. And learn to spot the more subtle nuances and undertones.
Being active on this forum for well over a decade now with literally thousands or even tens of thousands of piggies passing through has also had a major influence.

I just love guinea pigs as a fascinating and surprisingly complex species in their own right. And I am still learning...
I have told the story of Wiebke's Tribe in Guinea Pig Magazine issues 37-39 (my big Tribe group adventure from how it started, the group at its peak and then how it fell apart) and in issue 53 (Tegan's life story - she is the baby in my avatar picture on the left and lived to nearly 8 years old - and what happened after the Tribe era). The Tribe group ran for just over a piggy generation from 2009 until early 2014 but Tegan lived until 2019 by which time the Tribe and my adoption intakes had evolved into a different area.

You can find some of my Behaviour and Human Interaction articles and article series via the forum (shared on the forum with permission of the magazine) via our information collection: Comprehensive Owners' Practical and Supportive Information Collection
 
Thank you for sharing!
I too have had a life long love for these wonderful animals as a child, in adulthood, i started breeding show Swiss and cream Dutch, and always took in unwanted pets too. but my fate changed. then Melvin (my avatar) choose me and showed me my rescue heart. they are my family and friends and I’m always fascinated and feel joyful by these happy innocent little souls xx
 
So, wiebke, I put all the pigs in a big pen and sectioned off the new piggy in the pen while I cleaned out today
All was harmonious so I lifted the separator. There was a big pile of hay and chopped veg.
In the middle.
There was teath chattering
Two of my girls ran to the corner and hid together in a corner, my huge Swiss girl froze and squealed in submission, the younger one did the same
My boar teath chattered, head raised they circled, nipped bums,
I distracted with more veg and the settled but once finished bear and ginger nut the new skinny sow started again ending up in lunging and rolling around in a ball so I stopped it all immediately.

Do u think this is the end? Do you think it could just be fear?
My herd are all back together and cuddling as normal. They are such a tight group it seems. Ginger nut is next to them safe.
 
I am not a bonding expert but I think you did the right thing by separating Ginger Nut and leaving her alongside the herd.

I’ve just bonded 2 pairs and it can be very stressful for us trying to discern what is normal piggy politics and bonding and what is a bond that won’t work.
 
Ali-bongo said:
So, wiebke, I put all the pigs in a big pen and sectioned off the new piggy in the pen while I cleaned out today
All was harmonious so I lifted the separator. There was a big pile of hay and chopped veg.
In the middle.
There was teath chattering
Two of my girls ran to the corner and hid together in a corner, my huge Swiss girl froze and squealed in submission, the younger one did the same
My boar teath chattered, head raised they circled, nipped bums,
I distracted with more veg and the settled but once finished bear and ginger nut the new skinny sow started again ending up in lunging and rolling around in a ball so I stopped it all immediately.

Do u think this is the end? Do you think it could just be fear?
My herd are all back together and cuddling as normal. They are such a tight group it seems. Ginger nut is next to them safe.
Click to expand...

I am very sorry.

No, I do not think that any bonding is going to work out; not after a tussle like that. Your group have made up their collective mind now that Ginger Nut is not 'one of us' since Ginger Nut is clearly not accepting your boy (who I assume is the group leader as the bust happened between them)?

You were right to separate and to keep Ginger Nut alongside them. She is obviously rather tense and on the fear-aggressive side. Thankfully, most cross gender bondings result in tussles where both sides are keen to avoid full-on defence bites rather than in full-on biting fights but it generally means the end of the road nevertheless.

All you can do is to give your piggies a chance to find congenial company but you cannot make them accept what you offer...
 
Merab's Slave said:
I am not a bonding expert but I think you did the right thing by separating Ginger Nut and leaving her alongside the herd.

I’ve just bonded 2 pairs and it can be very stressful for us trying to discern what is normal piggy politics and bonding and what is a bond that won’t work.
Click to expand...
It’s so hard!
 
Wiebke said:
I am very sorry.

No, I do not think that any bonding is going to work out; not after a tussle like that. Your group have made up their collective mind now that Ginger Nut is not 'one of us' since Ginger Nut is clearly not accepting your boy (who I assume is the group leader as the bust happened between them)?

You were right to separate and to keep Ginger Nut alongside them. She is obviously rather tense and on the fear-aggressive side. Thankfully, most cross gender bondings result in tussles where both sides are keen to avoid full-on defence bites rather than in full-on biting fights but it generally means the end of the road nevertheless.

All you can do is to give your piggies a chance to find congenial company but you cannot make them accept what you offer...
Click to expand...
Oh Lordy 😞 how frustrating and disheartening to say the least.
I think a contributing factor to her fear aggression could be because she’s underweight,she fights for food and is on the defensive. If she won’t bond at least I can try to rehabilitate her and make her less fearful of life, a life free from fear, starvation, cold and no respect. Then decide on the next steps for her. ☹️
 
Ali-bongo said:
Oh Lordy 😞 how frustrating and disheartening to say the least.
I think a contributing factor to her fear aggression could be because she’s underweight,she fights for food and is on the defensive. If she won’t bond at least I can try to rehabilitate her and make her less fearful of life, a life free from fear, starvation, cold and no respect. Then decide on the next steps for her. ☹️
Click to expand...
Give her time to get over her ordeal and trauma - she may never fully do but with your good care, she is going to be as happy as she will ever be. Right now, company through the bars but having her own safe space is likely your best option.
It is her journey so you have to put her own needs and development at the centre. Rehabiliting traumatised piggies is very often not quite easy and can be much more complex than you expect. By giving her the space and time, as well as the freedom to go as far as she can, you are giving her the best possible environment to eventually blossom as much as she can.
 
Wiebke said:
Give her time to get over her ordeal and trauma - she may never fully do but with your good care, she is going to be as happy as she will ever be. Right now, company through the bars but having her own safe space is likely your best option.
It is her journey so you have to put her own needs and development at the centre. Rehabiliting traumatised piggies is is very often not quite easy and much more complex than you expect. By giving her the space and time, as well as the freedom to go as far as she can, you are giving her the best possible environment to eventually blossom as much as she can go.
Click to expand...
Thank you. She deserves patience x
 
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