Abdomen fluid and noisy breathing

[Jessdaisymay]

Hi,

I'm really hoping somebody could give me some advice/info/tips/reassurance/anything! I'm a single piggy mum to two beautiful piggy sisters, who are nearly 6 (though were rescued so reliant on the previous owners word).

Unfortunately I was admitted to hospital myself and so my girlies went to stay with another guinea-mum who spoilt them a LOT! They both came back much heavier!

Anyway, when I got my girlies back, I realised one, flora, had a larger abdomen - I thought it was the weight gained while I was in hospital, but it didn't seem to shift. I took her to the vets about her eye and asked the vets about her abdomen and they reassured me it felt fine.

Fast forward to this week. My piggies have the spare room in my house and I had noticed flora had still been eating, but just not as enthusiastic and ate slightly less. I kept a close eye on her and on Thursday morning woke up and saw her breathing was not right - she was making a noisy every time she breathed and breathing from her abdomen/her abdomen was sucking in every time she took a breath. I rushed her to the vets who said that her abdomen felt full of fluid and they believed it was that which was pushing up against her lungs, causing the breathing difficulties. She advised this can happen with cancers such as ovarian cancers or tumours. She gave flora an injection of pain relief and antibiotics in case she had an infection.


Fast forward to today (Saturday) and I've been giving her the antibiotics and metacam and while her breathing hasn't changed, she's back to eating more and started to do bigger poops again. She's by no way near healthy, but has more of an appetite and more energy than before.


My worry is that I feel that I'm just pacing time with her. I don't want her to suffer. Is there anything the vets could do? Their suggestion was if she goes downhill to put her to sleep. I do not want her to suffer at all, it broke my heart to see her how she was on Thursday. Is this the only option? Is it better to let her go before she suffers more? I'm so worried it must be exhausting her breathing this way

I very much welcome any comments!

Thank you!

Picture just because why wouldn't anybody want to pass on the chance to see a gorgeous girly.

 

[Jessdaisymay]

Oh forgot to add - I've read the guidance on here so many times - so so useful, thank you to all those who created them!

 

[Wheekallweek]

I have no advice but just wanted to say what a gorgeous girly she is!
I hope she's feeling better soon!

 

[Wiebke]

Oh forgot to add - I've read the guidance on here so many times - so so useful, thank you to all those who created them!

Hi

HUGS
You are not mentioning any diuretics as a last ditch try, which are essential to help reduce any fluid build-up and strained breathing. Heart meds (frusol/furosemide as diuretics for the fluid build up and vetmedin for the heart) either work quickly or not at all.

If the fluid doesn't shift, then it may be kinder to let her go. The fluid build up is usually either in the lungs, the chest cavity or the body cavity. In the lungs it can be from a pneumonia or the heart (either congestive heart failure or something pushing on the heart); in the chest cavity it is generally both heart scenarios and in the body cavity again the heart, something pushing on it or a major internal mass... The problem is that the fluid in the chest and body cavity often masks what is going on behind it.

Once you are dealing with persistent or severe diaphragmic breathing (i.e. heaving from the sides), you are dealing with serious a fight for life since it means that the heart is really straining. The prognosis is not particularly good.

I do really feel for you. Been there myself in May with one of my most stunning adoptees, three years old Tegeirian, who started with what initially looked like bloating and was treated as such but it just didn't shift and didn't behave like a bloat normally did. Since her heart checked out clear, the only other option for the massive fluid in her body cavity was a major advanced cancerous tumour. The kindest thing was to let her go since the odds for an operation were not good at all and she was fading.


I truly wish I had better news for you. Unfortunately, it is not a decision that anybody can make for you. But your love is clearly shining through. Go with your heart and see a vet again.

Here is my guide for other readers of this thread. It has been by far the hardest and personally most painful one to write for me but there is clearly a need for guidance in this difficult and sensitve area.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

My thoughts are with sweet Flora and you. It is always even harder on a weekend.

 

[Jessdaisymay]

Hi

HUGS
You are not mentioning any diuretics as a last ditch try, which are essential to help reduce any fluid build-up and strained breathing. Heart meds (frusol/furosemide as diuretics for the fluid build up and vetmedin for the heart) either work quickly or not at all.

If the fluid doesn't shift, then it may be kinder to let her go. The fluid build up is usually either in the lungs, the chest cavity or the body cavity. In the lungs it can be from a pneumonia or the heart (either congestive heart failure or something pushing on the heart); in the chest cavity it is generally both heart scenarios and in the body cavity again the heart, something pushing on it or a major internal mass... The problem is that the fluid in the chest and body cavity often masks what is going on behind it.

Once you are dealing with persistent or severe diaphragmic breathing (i.e. heaving from the sides), you are dealing with serious a fight for life since it means that the heart is really straining. The prognosis is not particularly good.

I do really feel for you. Been there myself in May with one of my most stunning adoptees, three years old Tegeirian, who started with what initially looked like bloating and was treated as such but it just didn't shift and didn't behave like a bloat normally did. Since her heart checked out clear, the only other option for the massive fluid in her body cavity was a major advanced cancerous tumour. The kindest thing was to let her go since the odds for an operation were not good at all and she was fading.
View attachment 233879

I truly wish I had better news for you. Unfortunately, it is not a decision that anybody can make for you. But your love is clearly shining through. Go with your heart and see a vet again.

Here is my guide for other readers of this thread. It has been by far the hardest and personally most painful one to write for me but there is clearly a need for guidance in this difficult and sensitve area.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

My thoughts are with sweet Flora and you. It is always even harder on a weekend.

Thank you so much for your reply. I had wondered about diuretics but the vet weirdly hadn't mentioned it, although may have been distracted by me sobbing in there - I'd held it all in because I've not wanted to be upset around her, but then it all hit me at the vets! I will give the vets a call for diuretics, definitely worth trying. I know there's a different branch which is open tomorrow morning.

The vet hinted at a large tumour/cancerous tumour being the cause and said it may be that when she goes downhill to bring her in and make a decision. I would 100% rather her be pts than her suffer. I just am worried at what point is too early - she is still eating, but I can only think how exhausting it is to find breathing so difficult. I think I'm going to ask the vets re diuretics and try that - nothing to lose I guess.

I'm so so sorry you lost your beautiful girl in similar circumstances- it's heartbreaking, it really is.

I hadn't realised you'd written that guide - from my heart, thank you so much. I got home from the vets and came onto this forum and have read and re-read the guide over and again, it's been strangely reassuring that I'm doing everything right and also gave me some guidance at a time when I just couldn't think clearly.

Was yours still eating when pts? I always hear people saying 'if they're still eating then that's a positive sign' but having been seriously unwell myself, especially with breathing difficulties, I know how utterly exhausting it is to just try and breathe. Oh I don't know, it's so hard, I doubt myself over anything and everything I think

 

[fluffysal]

I can't give any advice but don't apologise for pictures. I don't think I am the only one that would love to see all the pictures you have. I'm sure you will make the best decision for her

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your reply. I had wondered about diuretics but the vet weirdly hadn't mentioned it, although may have been distracted by me sobbing in there - I'd held it all in because I've not wanted to be upset around her, but then it all hit me at the vets! I will give the vets a call for diuretics, definitely worth trying. I know there's a different branch which is open tomorrow morning.

The vet hinted at a large tumour/cancerous tumour being the cause and said it may be that when she goes downhill to bring her in and make a decision. I would 100% rather her be pts than her suffer. I just am worried at what point is too early - she is still eating, but I can only think how exhausting it is to find breathing so difficult. I think I'm going to ask the vets re diuretics and try that - nothing to lose I guess.

I'm so so sorry you lost your beautiful girl in similar circumstances- it's heartbreaking, it really is.

I hadn't realised you'd written that guide - from my heart, thank you so much. I got home from the vets and came onto this forum and have read and re-read the guide over and again, it's been strangely reassuring that I'm doing everything right and also gave me some guidance at a time when I just couldn't think clearly.

Was yours still eating when pts? I always hear people saying 'if they're still eating then that's a positive sign' but having been seriously unwell myself, especially with breathing difficulties, I know how utterly exhausting it is to just try and breathe. Oh I don't know, it's so hard, I doubt myself over anything and everything I think

The need to breathe comes before the need to drink and only thirdly the need to eat - that is why serious respiratory infections are always appetite killers. As long as Flora is still able to eat on her own, you are not quite yet at last prayers. It may be worth giving heart meds a try and see what happens - even if it is only for your long term peace of mind of you having explored all possible avenues.

If it is a cancer at the bottom of it all, then the heart med won't be doing anything. In Tegeirian's case, the heart could be clearly eliminated as the cause of the fluid build up so it could only be something pretty massive inside causing havoc and the decision was a lot clear cut.

Unfortunately, these extreme situations are always emotionally so very tough. And since we cannot see into the future (only in hindsight) it is like groping our way blindfolded through a maze without anybody able to tell us whether we are taking the right turn or not.

 

[Jessdaisymay]

The need to breathe comes before the need to drink and only thirdly the need to eat - that is why serious respiratory infections are always appetite killers. As long as Flora is still able to eat on her own, you are not quite yet at last prayers. It may be worth giving heart meds a try and see what happens - even if it is only for your long term peace of mind of you having explored all possible avenues.

If it is a cancer at the bottom of it all, then the heart med won't be doing anything. In Tegeirian's case, the heart could be clearly eliminated as the cause of the fluid build up so it could only be something pretty massive inside causing havoc.

Unfortunately, these extreme situations are always emotionally so very tough. And since we cannot see into the future (only in hindsight) it is like groping our way blindfolded through a maze without anybody able to tell us whether we are taking the right turn or not.

Thank you, yes I think I will enquire about the heart meds - from what the vet said it makes me think she thought it was a tumour/cancer underlying it all. Taking each day as it comes, or at times, each hour. Keeping her topped up with metacam to keep her comfortable re pain.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you, yes I think I will enquire about the heart meds - from what the vet said it makes me think she thought it was a tumour/cancer underlying it all. Taking each day as it comes, or at times, each hour. Keeping her topped up with metacam to keep her comfortable re pain.

Your vet is the only person who can discuss with you the advisability of diuretics and heart meds based on their diagnostic findings and experience. You will have to take it from there - even if it is just to rule it out.

If you struggle emotionally, do you have somebody who could come with you and repeat all the bits that slip past you afterwards? It is always very difficult to take it all in when you feel emotionally overwhelmed.
Tips For Vet Visits

The practical tips in this guide here can help with any potentially fraught vet visits, they do not only work just for anxiety sufferers: Pet Owners Anxiety - Practical Tips For Sufferers and For Supporters

All the best.

 

[Wheekallweek]

It's clear how much you care for her - she is a very lucky girl