A pair or trio?

Spring100

Spring100

Junior Guinea Pig
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Currently I have a pair (sow and neutered boar) in a 6x2 c&c cage. They are still young. Mother of about 1.5 and son of 9 months. They are doing very well together. I don't notice any tension between them.

My intention was three guinea pigs (one boar and two sows). The reason is that I think this is nice for the dynamics and when one dies, one is not immediately alone.

Now that they are doing so well together, I'm starting to have doubts. I'm afraid a second sow will disrupt the dynamic. My sow is a bit dominant. She accepts the male (she let him boss her around, but she still has the best sleeping spots haha), but I wonder if she will accept another sow. In addition, I read that with three guinea pigs there is always one more outside. I think a 6x2 is too small for four so that is not an option for me.

So now...Pros and cons...What do you think? Pair or trio?
 
It’s really up to you how many you want to have!
Any bond comes down to character compatibility though so if you can date your pair at a rescue to find a new friend(s) then that is safest.

A 6x2 is absolutely fine for four piggies.

This bond explains the theory of what does and doesn’t work when adding piggies - of course you never know until you try though

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
 
Thanks for the info! I mainly wonder which is better for the pigs. Isn't just the two of them too boring? Or does it not matter whether they live in a pair or with more?
 
Spring100 said:
Currently I have a pair (sow and neutered boar) in a 6x2 c&c cage. They are still young. Mother of about 1.5 and son of 9 months. They are doing very well together. I don't notice any tension between them.

My intention was three guinea pigs (one boar and two sows). The reason is that I think this is nice for the dynamics and when one dies, one is not immediately alone.

Now that they are doing so well together, I'm starting to have doubts. I'm afraid a second sow will disrupt the dynamic. My sow is a bit dominant. She accepts the male (she let him boss her around, but she still has the best sleeping spots haha), but I wonder if she will accept another sow. In addition, I read that with three guinea pigs there is always one more outside. I think a 6x2 is too small for four so that is not an option for me.

So now...Pros and cons...What do you think? Pair or trio?
Click to expand...

Hi

Groups are always lovely but since rescues are a lot less common in the Netherlands, you may not necessarily have access to one.

The one thing I would like to bring up is if you would like to try to introduce more piggies at home that you will need a plan B in case the bonding doesn't work out. Can you extend your cage space to accommodate another pair either above or next to the existing cage?
 
There are indeed just a few shelter locations in the Netherlands. And when they are there, they don't date. There is one in Limburg that does offer this, but for me this is more than a 3-hour drive...

I do have options to make a 6x2 above it, but that's really not what I want.

Maybe I can keep my eyes open at the shelters that are available. And see if I come across a submissive sow. Unfortunately, they mainly have boars. They keep the sows to be placed with a neutered boar...
 
Spring100 said:
There are indeed just a few shelter locations in the Netherlands. And when they are there, they don't date. There is one in Limburg that does offer this, but for me this is more than a 3-hour drive...

I do have options to make a 6x2 above it, but that's really not what I want.

Maybe I can keep my eyes open at the shelters that are available. And see if I come across a submissive sow. Unfortunately, they mainly have boars. They keep the sows to be placed with a neutered boar...
Click to expand...

You could try to form a trio with a neutered boar provided that the boar can return to the rescue in case the bonding is not coming off (the adoption fee remains with the rescue).

PS: I have travelled by train for over 3 hours each way with piggies of mine for dating a neutered boar...
I have travelled even further up to up 5 hours each way to bring home adopted piggies from all over the UK; my Cerian who has come all the way from the tip of Kent in that memorable journey has celebrated her 5th adoption anniversary last November and is now coming up to 7 years of age - so clearly she has survived her long trip, including the mile footwalk between stations in London in order to avoid the tube. However, I am aware that this is on the extreme side.
 
Spring100 said:
I already have a boar (boar and sow) 🙂 Another boar is not an option haha.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I am jumping between lots of things.

The safest way of adding two more sows to a bonded pair is two much younger sows that cannot challenge the existing hierarchy and in fact enhance the exisiting sow's status as a group leader; up to 6 months would be best.
 
Perhaps the shelter in Limburg is an option to keep an eye on. For many people in the world, 3 hours will be quite normal in terms of travel time. But for Dutch people, since we're not used to big distances, it really is a huge travel time for something that is not a holiday! 😅
 
I am slowly looking for a third guinea pig for my bonded pair (neutered boar and sow). The advice I received before was to look for a pair of young sows (under 6 months).

This combination cannot easy be found in shelters in the Netherlands. So then I would have to search in pet stores or the internet. Because I prefer to adopt a guinea pig from the shelter, I will end up with a slightly older sow (i'm looking for max 3 years).

My own 1.5 year old sow is quite dominant. The bear is not really dominant, quite calm. But I think (just about) the boss. So I am specifically looking for a calm and submissive sow.

Are there any tips I can take with me in this process? I don't think quarantine is necessary, because the shelters I have in mind are reliable and professional. Should I do the bonding right away or keep the new sow separate for a while? And then really separately or next to the c&c cage in another cage?
 
Spring100 said:
I am slowly looking for a third guinea pig for my bonded pair (neutered boar and sow). The advice I received before was to look for a pair of young sows (under 6 months).

This combination cannot easy be found in shelters in the Netherlands. So then I would have to search in pet stores or the internet. Because I prefer to adopt a guinea pig from the shelter, I will end up with a slightly older sow (i'm looking for max 3 years).

My own 1.5 year old sow is quite dominant. The bear is not really dominant, quite calm. But I think (just about) the boss. So I am specifically looking for a calm and submissive sow.

Are there any tips I can take with me in this process? I don't think quarantine is necessary, because the shelters I have in mind are reliable and professional. Should I do the bonding right away or keep the new sow separate for a while? And then really separately or next to the c&c cage in another cage?
Click to expand...

Hi

In my own experience a well bonded mixed gender will often not want a third intruder (especially not with a dominant sow), no matter what the personality. Trying a couple of submissive sows turns the couple into a group with different dynamics, as long as your existing sow comes out on top.

Age is less a matter than personality and outlook. The problem with adult sows is that the loser of the leadership contest will often refuse to give in and submit since it is marked step down for her in terms of status and standing. I've done plenty of Tribe internal bondings (especially after losses) but it have had more fails than successes with creating trios. They only work out when the sows are good friends.

You would either have the rescue take back the sow or keep her next to the others in an adjoining cage with full interaction through the bars for the necessary social stimulation. I wish it was easier but even what looks like a perfect on paper can be an outright fail when the piggies come face to face. I have got a big cupboard full of those t-shirts and have learned to do those kinds of adoptions only with a plan B (and had on occasion go down to plan E!)
 
Thanks. Maybe i should keep them together and not add another sow. They seem to really like each other. I really do not want two cages 😅 I will keep looking for a pair then. Maybe one day i will see a couple of young sows at a shelter.
 
An update to the above question. I expanded my cage to a 6x3 c&c and now have more than enough space for 4 guinea pigs. I have now found 2 2-month-old sows at the shelter that I can pick up soon. Exciting!

I was wondering...Do you first let your new guinea pigs acclimatize for a while in a separate cage or do you start bonding immediately?
 
As the new girls are in a pair (so no youngster is alone), then it is wise that you have them a bit of time in a separate but side by side cage with your current pair to allow the new girls to settle before bonding.
(If you were getting a single baby then it would be different and you’d need to be bond sooner asap baby shouldnt be alone)

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
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Spring100 said:
Would one week be enough?
Click to expand...

Hi

Generally yes. However, you don't go necessarily by a fixed date but by how well they are settling into their new home and you want to have any initial over-excitement/territorial behaviour out of the way. Some piggies take just a few days, some will take weeks. Babies generally have a strong need to belong so bonding should happen sooner rather than later.

Here are our settling in/arrival tips:
Wiebke

Thread 'New Guinea Pigs: How to Best Manage Arrival and Settling In'

Intro
1 What to do on arrival at home
- A welcome in piggy language
- Health check, sexing and weighing
- Quarantine or not if you have other guinea pigs?
2 Helping your guinea pigs to settle in
- Some practical tips for settling in new guinea pigs
- Avoiding predatory behaviours
- Skittish or ill?
- Group establishment and dominance
3 Handling and human...

Here is our step-by-step bonding guide:
Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
  • Like
 
Thanks for your response. I just can't seem to translate this sentence: want to have any initial over-excitement/territorial behaviour out of the way. Could you explain what you mean by this? Thanks!
 
Spring100 said:
Thanks for your response. I just can't seem to translate this sentence: want to have any initial over-excitement/territorial behaviour out of the way. Could you explain what you mean by this? Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi

Guinea pigs are territorial in their denning or cage area and can over-react when they feel out of their comfort zone.

Having the divider at first is a measure to get the piggies over that stage because afterwards there is less of a risk of fear-aggressive behaviours leading to a failed bonding and can lead to defence bites from a cornered under-piggy (hence the rule for two exits ideally forever or at least for the first few weeks).

Insecure piggies, especially insecure new leaders, will exhibit stronger dominance behaviour ('fear-aggression'). Normally, piggies rely on the guidance of an elder who they shadow at the age they are sold in the shops until they become teenagers and have their own babies to look after and bring up between them.

Wiebke

Thread 'Arrival in a home from the perspective of pet shop guinea pigs'

Arrival from the view of guinea pigs

This text is part of an article I have written for Guinea Pig Magazine issue 47 (November 2018).
It is the propriety of GPM and is being shared on here with the magazine's permission. Guinea Pig Mag

Guinea pigs are most often seen as cuddly pets and as a living extension of our human desires and expectations.
This can cause problems because guinea pigs are prey animals whose instincts are still intact even after thousands of years of domestication and they are also highly social animals with their own...
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Wiebke

Thread 'Reacting to group or territorial changes: Dominance and group establishment/re-establishment'

- What can trigger a new hierarchy sort-out?
- What can I do to mitigate the impact?

With an average life span of only around 3 years and a hostile environment, wild guinea pig social life is much more fluid and eventful, whether that is losses, births, regular leadership changes, new boars being accepted or changes to the territory due to climate extremes, infectious illnesses, predation and the waxing and waning of group fortunes and the amount of territory they can claim around their denning areas.


What can trigger...
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Thanks for the explanation. I have an 'emergency cage'. Should I put this next to the c&c cage? I had the feeling that this would cause stress, because they see each other but cannot be together. But you have had good experiences with this?

They come from a shelter, not a store 😊
 
Yes put the cages together. There will be initial excitement, then they can get to know each other a little while still secure in their own space.
 
Spring100 said:
Thanks for the explanation. I have an 'emergency cage'. Should I put this next to the c&c cage? I had the feeling that this would cause stress, because they see each other but cannot be together. But you have had good experiences with this?

They come from a shelter, not a store 😊
Click to expand...

Please keep them next to the other. You will get some territorial behaviour initially (It's not them wanting to be together!) but they do need the ongoing mutual stimulation through the bars and can even live as pairs next to each in the long term.
 
OK! Then I'm going to do that. I can pick them up on Saturday and not start bonding during the week because of my work. If everything has calmed down after a week, the following Saturday I will leave them together in a neutral room all day/weekend.
 
Spring100 said:
OK! Then I'm going to do that. I can pick them up on Saturday and not start bonding during the week because of my work. If everything has calmed down after a week, the following Saturday I will leave them together in a neutral room all day/weekend.
Click to expand...

All the best!
 
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