4month boar (new piggie!) neutering advice

[plantandpiggiemom]

Hello all! I recently rescued a big boar boy, with white course fur and curly whiskers that is making us think he might be a Rex, and we’re planning on getting him neutered in the next month. The vet we contacted recommends abdominal neutering, as we’re hoping to have him live with our two girls (who he’s currently socializing with via cage walling and everything is going well ), but it’s such an invasive procedure. He’d need to be there for the day before and after, and it worries me, but I want to do what’s best for the little guy. I read on the forum a little about how simply removing his scrotum is possible, but I didn’t see abdominal and scrotal neutering compared in effectiveness. Anybody who’s done both or either with advice for no baby guinea pigs but also a happy boar?

 

[YvonneBlue]

I am not one of the forum health experts but i'm sure one of them will be along soon with relevant advice. From my own experience, i have had two boars and neutered both were procedures where done via the scrotum. I believe this method is less invasive and quicker than abdominal surgery. Both my boars recovered well and were back to their usual selves within a few days. Although i had to syringe feed Milo the first night after the op as he was still a bit dazed from the anaesthetic. Both times my piggy came home on the day of the operation. My vet gave me plenty of pain relief for them for 5 days after the op. Do read the post-op care guides on the forum they helped me a great deal in being prepared for all eventualities.

I would ask how many of these procedures your vet does as the outcome is usually better when a vet is experienced at doing this op. There is a list of recommended vets on the forum Recommended Guinea Pig Vets .

 

[Free Ranger]

I think I'm right in remembering that abdominal neutering is one cut instead of two? You might want to take a look at this thread from last year which is quite long and a bit 'worst case scenario' but it does have a happy ending and there are also one or two relevant points Neutering Operation Monday

One thing Wiebke said was that whichever procedure your vet is most comfortable with is likely to make the op quicker which is important.
Somewhere in the middle one poster talked about the rescue they work with and how the vets there use the scrotal method and very rarely have any complications - and it's a bit of a production line situation being a rescue!
And I can recall looking back at the original publication where the 2 methods were compared and realising that the brave recovering experimental piggies were housed in wire mesh cages which meant all the potentially problematic pee/poop/dirty bedding that the wound drags through just wouldn't have been there... but nobody keeps their pigs like this!
@Tara95 - have you anything to add or do you just think your situation with little Winston was pure bad luck?

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

We get all boars neutered prior to rehoming and all surgery is done via the scrotum, with a tiny cut each side. Our vet is very experienced and all guinea pigs have recovered from the surgery, very quickly.

 

[Tara95]

I think I'm right in remembering that abdominal neutering is one cut instead of two? You might want to take a look at this thread from last year which is quite long and a bit 'worst case scenario' but it does have a happy ending and there are also one or two relevant points Neutering Operation Monday

One thing Wiebke said was that whichever procedure your vet is most comfortable with is likely to make the op quicker which is important.
Somewhere in the middle one poster talked about the rescue they work with and how the vets there use the scrotal method and very rarely have any complications - and it's a bit of a production line situation being a rescue!
And I can recall looking back at the original publication where the 2 methods were compared and realising that the brave recovering experimental piggies were housed in wire mesh cages which meant all the potentially problematic pee/poop/dirty bedding that the wound drags through just wouldn't have been there... but nobody keeps their pigs like this!
@Tara95 - have you anything to add or do you just think your situation with little Winston was pure bad luck?

This is a blast from the past I'd long but put that experience behind me, lol. I'd like to thank everyone for all their help and support all 12 pages of advice!. Would not have been able to do that without you all.

I was told by my vet that this was proven to be most effective and safest method and it's the most modern method that they use in America (or something like that). So I convinced myself this was to be true as she was a top vet that specialised in this procedure for the exotics. I was shocked about how invasive the procedure was as in with the abdominal method If you look at the photos it looks very deep and sore. I don't regret doing this as he now lives happily with 6 sows and is really calm and lovely member of the herd that tells the sows off if they bully someone in the herd and he hasn't had any problems since.

BUT, this was the only vet that would perform this procedure at 8 weeks of age providing he was the recommended weight and I/he was desperate not to be alone. So I didn't have the option of another method. Overall it was a stressful procedure and I was lucky I was off work for a week to syringe feed/monitor regularly so I would definitely do this when your off work! It didn't help that he bit his stitches off which I think contributed to infection/pain. If this was the other more common method he might not have been able to bite his stitches as easily but I can't say for sure. I would say be prepared for stress.. I wouldn't do this again personally. Only if an animal was going to be kept by itself and there wasn't another option. Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Engel]

I had my Basil neutered via abdominal incision. I spoke to the vet about it beforehand and she explained everything really well. Here are the questions I asked her and her response:

Me: Have you neutered many guinea pigs?
Vet: Yes, I've done quite a few with great results. I believed her as I've been to her regarding a lot of my animals and over different issues and she has let us know her limits. If there's something she can't do, or doesn't have experience in she tells us and finds someone else who can. (I still asked other members of staff and they said the same.)

Me: Do you have more experience in scrotal or abdominal? Do you have a preference?
Vet: I have experience with both as I've done a lot of both. I'm happy to do either, it's up to you.

Me: What is the rate of infection in scrotal Vs abdominal?
Vet: I have found that scrotal has a higher infection rate compared to abdominal. This may be because the incision is so close to the anus. It could be because they're generally close to the ground anyway and it's in contact with potential bacteria. I haven't had many problems with abdominal if I'm honest.

Me: Do you normally prescribe antibiotics after the op?
Vet: not normally for abdominal unless there's an issue.

Me: is there a time difference regarding how long Basil will be under anesthesia?
Vet: I can do both procedures in roughly the same amount of time.

Me: does one take longer to heal?
Vet: assuming theres no infection, I believe abdominal takes a little longer to heal just because it's more invasive.

 

[Tara95]

I had my Basil neutered via abdominal incision. I spoke to the vet about it beforehand and she explained everything really well. Here are the questions I asked her and her response:

Me: Have you neutered many guinea pigs?
Vet: Yes, I've done quite a few with great results. I believed her as I've been to her regarding a lot of my animals and over different issues and she has let us know her limits. If there's something she can't do, or doesn't have experience in she tells us and finds someone else who can. (I still asked other members of staff and they said the same.)

Me: Do you have more experience in scrotal or abdominal? Do you have a preference?
Vet: I have experience with both as I've done a lot of both. I'm happy to do either, it's up to you.

Me: What is the rate of infection in scrotal Vs abdominal?
Vet: I have found that scrotal has a higher infection rate compared to abdominal. This may be because the incision is so close to the anus. It could be because they're generally close to the ground anyway and it's in contact with potential bacteria. I haven't had many problems with abdominal if I'm honest.

Me: Do you normally prescribe antibiotics after the op?
Vet: not normally for abdominal unless there's an issue.

Me: is there a time difference regarding how long Basil will be under anesthesia?
Vet: I can do both procedures in roughly the same amount of time.

Me: does one take longer to heal?
Vet: assuming theres no infection, I believe abdominal takes a little longer to heal just because it's more invasive.

It's all coming back to me now I think the vet said to me that it can impact toileting and cause issues in the future as they get older If they have it done via the scotum because it's very close to their tubes or something to that effect. Glad you didn't have any issues

 

[Tara95]

Before I forget to add, I have Just noticed that your boar is only 4 months. I think alot of vets recommend that they're 6 months or above I know I spoke to a few that did 4 months but this was rare if I remember correctly. How much does your boar weigh? And is he fully developed? It can be easier to perform the operation if they're very well developed via the scotum. BUT, I THINK it is not as important if it's done via the abdomen. Good luck.

 

[Engel]

Before I forget to add, I have Just noticed that your boar is only 4 months. I think alot of vets recommend that they're 6 months or above I know I spoke to a few that did 4 months but this was rare if I remember correctly. How much does your boar weigh? And is he fully developed? It can be easier to perform the operation if they're very well developed via the scotum. BUT, I THINK it is not as important if it's done via the abdomen. Good luck.

Basil was 4 months when he had his done. I think it's weight depending also. Basil was roughly 700g+

 

[Swissgreys]

Before I forget to add, I have Just noticed that your boar is only 4 months. I think alot of vets recommend that they're 6 months or above I know I spoke to a few that did 4 months but this was rare if I remember correctly. How much does your boar weigh? And is he fully developed? It can be easier to perform the operation if they're very well developed via the scotum. BUT, I THINK it is not as important if it's done via the abdomen. Good luck.

You are correct.
All boars here in Switzerland are neutered prior to sexual maturity at around 2-3 weeks old.
Yes weeks - not months.
Obviously this has to be done abdominally, as there isn't much going on in the scrotal area at that age (a sentence I never thought I would be typing on a public forum!).
Things like impaction and toileting issues are rarely a problem in older boars, although this could also be in part due to the very early neutering age.

So I would say that if you vet is confident using this method, and has a good track record, then it is worth considering.

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

Before I forget to add, I have Just noticed that your boar is only 4 months. I think alot of vets recommend that they're 6 months or above I know I spoke to a few that did 4 months but this was rare if I remember correctly. How much does your boar weigh? And is he fully developed? It can be easier to perform the operation if they're very well developed via the scotum. BUT, I THINK it is not as important if it's done via the abdomen. Good luck.

Oh, thank you for letting me know! He should be 5 months total now that I think about it, I was dumb and didn’t do the math that 4 months at place + the time needed to be away from mom is 5, at least. However, we’re waiting a month now extra just in case he needs a bit more time. Weight, I’d have to guesstimate right now because it’s been a week, but yesterday we measured him for giggles and he’s 25.4cm long nose to tail. He’s a very big boy. But just to be safe and make a more informed decision, we’re waiting an extra month. Again, thank you so much

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

You are correct.
All boars here in Switzerland are neutered prior to sexual maturity at around 2-3 weeks old.
Yes weeks - not months.
Obviously this has to be done abdominally, as there isn't much going on in the scrotal area at that age (a sentence I never thought I would be typing on a public forum!).
Things like impaction and toileting issues are rarely a problem in older boars, although this could also be in part due to the very early neutering age.

So I would say that if you vet is confident using this method, and has a good track record, then it is worth considering.

So, if we waiting until he was definitely 6 months, he could be housed safely with un-spayed females and avoid the more invasive procedure without complications?

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

This is a blast from the past I'd long but put that experience behind me, lol. I'd like to thank everyone for all their help and support all 12 pages of advice!. Would not have been able to do that without you all.

I was told by my vet that this was proven to be most effective and safest method and it's the most modern method that they use in America (or something like that). So I convinced myself this was to be true as she was a top vet that specialised in this procedure for the exotics. I was shocked about how invasive the procedure was as in with the abdominal method If you look at the photos it looks very deep and sore. I don't regret doing this as he now lives happily with 6 sows and is really calm and lovely member of the herd that tells the sows off if they bully someone in the herd and he hasn't had any problems since.

BUT, this was the only vet that would perform this procedure at 8 weeks of age providing he was the recommended weight and I/he was desperate not to be alone. So I didn't have the option of another method. Overall it was a stressful procedure and I was lucky I was off work for a week to syringe feed/monitor regularly so I would definitely do this when your off work! It didn't help that he bit his stitches off which I think contributed to infection/pain. If this was the other more common method he might not have been able to bite his stitches as easily but I can't say for sure. I would say be prepared for stress.. I wouldn't do this again personally. Only if an animal was going to be kept by itself and there wasn't another option. Good luck and keep us updated!

So, an older boy can be done scrotally more reliably? Our vet said that they preferred doing it abdominally because some “stuff” could be left inside, but I accidentally told her that he’s 4 months, when he’s 5, but we’re waiting a month anyways to make the best decision for him. I work from home, so time off isn’t an issue, and my stress levels aren’t important to me as his…and I just don’t see how it wouldn’t be incredibly stressful—especially if he tore his stitches, which he is for sure strong enough to do. I want to do what’s best so that he can live with our girls and we can join their cages so they’ll have a giant space all together, but baby piggies are the not the goal here. If he’s at sexual maturity and around 6-7 months, which he will be regardless now, would scrotal be as effective to your knowledge? Like, is it just for undeveloped boys that abdominal is better?

 

[Piggies&buns]

So, an older boy can be done scrotally more reliably? Our vet said that they preferred doing it abdominally because some “stuff” could be left inside, but I accidentally told her that he’s 4 months, when he’s 5, but we’re waiting a month anyways to make the best decision for him. I work from home, so time off isn’t an issue, and my stress levels aren’t important to me as his…and I just don’t see how it wouldn’t be incredibly stressful—especially if he tore his stitches, which he is for sure strong enough to do. I want to do what’s best so that he can live with our girls and we can join their cages so they’ll have a giant space all together, but baby piggies are the not the goal here. If he’s at sexual maturity and around 6-7 months, which he will be regardless now, would scrotal be as effective to your knowledge? Like, is it just for undeveloped boys that abdominal is better?

Once the testicles have properly descended approximately 4-6 months of age then they can be neutered via scrotum.
(boars can make their own babies from 3-5 weeks of age).
In Switzerland early neutering is done at just a couple weeks of age but this has to be abdominal because the testicles aren’t in the scrotum at that point. Early neutering is generally not done in the UK - they have to wait until at least 4 months of age - but the vet can then either do it via scrotum or abdomen whichever they prefer.

There is a six week wait after neutering for them to become infertile, and then you can bond with sows after those six weeks are up.

My pets have always been neutered via the scrotum. They’ve always been back to their normal selves within a couple of days

 

[plantandpiggiemom]

O

Once the testicles have properly descended approximately 4-6 months of age then they can be neutered via scrotum.
(boars can make their own babies from 3-5 weeks of age).
In Switzerland early neutering is done at just a couple weeks of age but this has to be abdominal because the testicles aren’t in the scrotum at that point. Early neutering is generally not done in the UK - they have to wait until at least 4 months of age - but the vet can then either do it via scrotum or abdomen whichever they prefer.

There is a six week wait after neutering for them to become infertile, and then you can bond with sows after those six weeks are up.

My pets have always been neutered via the scrotum. They’ve always been back to their normal selves within a couple of days

Okay, thank you, we’ll wait

 

[Tara95]

So, an older boy can be done scrotally more reliably? Our vet said that they preferred doing it abdominally because some “stuff” could be left inside, but I accidentally told her that he’s 4 months, when he’s 5, but we’re waiting a month anyways to make the best decision for him. I work from home, so time off isn’t an issue, and my stress levels aren’t important to me as his…and I just don’t see how it wouldn’t be incredibly stressful—especially if he tore his stitches, which he is for sure strong enough to do. I want to do what’s best so that he can live with our girls and we can join their cages so they’ll have a giant space all together, but baby piggies are the not the goal here. If he’s at sexual maturity and around 6-7 months, which he will be regardless now, would scrotal be as effective to your knowledge? Like, is it just for undeveloped boys that abdominal is better?

I think @Piggies&buns has answered the question perfectly. I get the impression that in younger guinea pigs under the recommended age that the abdominal method is normally used as this is the method used in other countries for Young guinea pigs who are not developed. It could be difficult to perform the scrotal operation if the guinea pig isn't well developed and we have evidence that this method is safe for younger guinea pigs as it is done in Switzerland at a very Young age and seems successful. However it is recommended that with both methods in the UK that the guinea pigs are atleast 6 months of age but this can be done at 3-4 months. I think the reason for this is because they are going under anesthetic and if they are below 600g they may have a reduced likelihood of pulling through. But as stated the abdominal method is normally more invasive and I Believe there is a very similar time of going under anesthetic. Hope this helps. Try not to stress about it there are pros and cons for each.

Also it is worth noting that Winston was 9 weeks of age when he had this procedure so this may have contributed to a longer recovery time? But really I don't think so as less than a week after his op he was over 700g and then a week after that he was nearly 800 so a good weight for recovery. Perhaps I overdid the syringe feeding in hindsight..