3 male guinea pigs- help!

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Smokey+george

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Hi all,

We have two male guinea pigs, Smokey and George. We got them 2 years ago now. Smokey is the dominant one and likes to hump George a lot. George doesn’t really care but I do feel for him. I wouldn’t say they have the best bond but they do get on.

A week ago we adopted another male pig, Milo. He is a year younger than the other two. The shop we got him (Pets at home) said he was depressed and lonely and I thought he would be a perfect friend for George. I said this to the shop assistant and told them we had two males at home. They did not say that 3 male guinea pigs do not live in harmony together. We have tried to introduce Milo to the other two and they have been fine. Smokey’s behaviour has changed and he has been humping George more than usual and George has had enough. Day 4- Smokey and Milo had a fight - no blood was drawn and we were there to stop the fight. George and Milo get on really well but Smokey cannot be away from George but will hump him and annoy him when they are together. We have only given small introductions and we have been there every time monitoring them. We have swapped cages from them to smell each others scent and I’ve not noticed changes of behaviour so I assumed they would be okay.

I was hoping before the fight that they could live together but from further research it doesn’t seem likely. I don’t want Milo to have to be introduced to another family of pigs/ home again but I also want him to have a friend.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I have no idea what to do.
 
We can send Milo to another family - we know someone that might take him in. I just don’t want to keep adding trauma to his life and he is such a lovely boy. I also don’t think we have room for 4 pigs. X
 
I’m sorry to hear this and I’m sorry that the shop have once again not been helpful with their information.

Sadly three together doesn’t work and now there has been a fight they do need to be permanently separated.

Smokey and George will hopefully remain together with Milo kept away from them (although as a single pig his cage does need to be side by side with them for interaction through the bars only) is a risk that after a trio attempt the bond between the original pair can also be negatively affected.

Humping is absolutely normal and in normal dominance circumstances you do not need to do anything about it.
But it’s important to be aware that it can go over the top, become excessive and tip into bullying. It then goes one of two ways. Either the submissive gets withdrawn and depressed; or the submissive simply reaches the end of their rope and fights back. Either way bullying is always bond breaking.
I am mentioning this because you said George has had enough. Just something to be aware of.

It’s lovely that you want to provide Milo with a stable home. Living side by side with George and Smokey is an option but it does mean you’ve got two cages.
If you wish to keep Milo and want to save space, if Milo has a friend then cages can be stacked one on top of the other. That cannot be done where a pig is single though as they would lose all ability to interact.
The alternative is to rehome him where he can be bonded with another piggy.


Lastly and not that it matters as it wouldn’t have made any difference as the bonding would have failed due to incompatibility and the inabilityfor a boar trio to form a hierarchy anyway - but for the completeness of information for anybody else coming across bonding threads it’s important there we correct information.
The way you have been introducing goes against what piggies need during a bonding.
Small introductions don’t work - bonding is a one time all or nothing make or break event on one day, particularly for boars. Putting together and then separating repeatedly interrupts the whole bonding process every time, cause them to have to start from the beginning every time meaning they never get far enough in, introduces additional stress and can actually hamper the bonding altogether.
Scent swapping also can have an adverse effect and is not recommended. Rather than allowing them to get used to the smell of another, instead they then find the scent of another piggy in their territory. When they then meet the piggy with that scent, it is then hostile as they have found the intruder.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear this and I’m sorry that the shop have once again not been helpful with their information.

Sadly three together doesn’t work and now there has been a fight they do need to be permanently separated.

Smokey and George will hopefully remain together with Milo kept away from them (although as a single pig his cage does need to be side by side with them for interaction through the bars only) is a risk that after a trio attempt the bond between the original pair can also be negatively affected.

Humping is absolutely normal and in normal dominance circumstances you do not need to do anything about it.
But it’s important to be aware that it can go over the top, become excessive and tip into bullying. It then goes one of two ways. Either the submissive gets withdrawn and depressed; or the submissive simply reaches the end of their rope and fights back. Either way bullying is always bond breaking.
I am mentioning this because you said George has had enough. Just something to be aware of.

It’s lovely that you want to provide Milo with a stable home. Living side by side with George and Smokey is an option but it does mean you’ve got two cages.
If you wish to keep Milo and want to save space, if Milo has a friend then cages can be stacked one on top of the other. That cannot be done where a pig is single though as they would lose all ability to interact.
The alternative is to rehome him where he can be bonded with another piggy.


Lastly and not that it matters as it wouldn’t have made any difference as the bonding would have failed due to incompatibility and the inabilityfor a boar trio to form a hierarchy anyway - but for the completeness of information for anybody else coming across bonding threads it’s important there we correct information.
The way you have been introducing goes against what piggies need during a bonding.
Small introductions don’t work - bonding is a one time all or nothing make or break event on one day, particularly for boars. Putting together and then separating repeatedly interrupts the whole bonding process every time, cause them to have to start from the beginning every time meaning they never get far enough in, introduces additional stress and can actually hamper the bonding altogether.
Scent swapping also can have an adverse effect and is not recommended. Rather than allowing them to get used to the smell of another, instead they then find the scent of another piggy in their territory. When they then meet the piggy with that scent, it is then hostile as they have found the intruder.
Click to expand...
Thank you so so much for this information. It is a shame that stores do not provide information such as this. We are first time Pig owners so we are just trying to figure it out.
This was extremely helpful.
 
It seems to be a bit hit and miss with the information from shops - some give the correct information and others just don’t. Most people do sadly only find us after their boar trio has failed. It is a shame for both the owners and the piggies

We are here to help so do let us know if we can answer anything else for you
 
Welcome to the forum, I have a pair of recently separated boys.
 
There is the option of finding a vet who is really experienced and does a lot of guinea pig neutering operations and once six weeks have passed, he could be housed with a wife in an upstairs "apartment" of their own or in another room if there is space. I'm not sure how the pair would react to having a sow nearby though. They might fight over the scent when she is in season. A good rescue could help you find the right sow if they thought this could work. The other alternative is that sometimes sows are spayed because of ovarian cysts and you might find one who could live with Milo.
 
It’s not recommended to bring sows into a room where a bonded boar live. It can risk their bond to smell a sow - the pair could fight over simply smelling her.
There are ways to have it happen but you have to be prepared for the potential ‘excitement’ and issues with the boar pair smelling her.
With the potential for issues between Smokey and George (the fact that ‘he has had enough’ was mentioned) I would definitely not bring a sow into the room while there is any potential for instability in their bond.

It would definitely not be advisable to have a sow above the boar pair. If anything the sow needs to be below the boar pair in a stacked cage but as per my previous comment, bringing a sow into a room where bonded boars live can be risky.

Spayed sows in rescue are not common.

Should a fourth pig ever be an option, another boar is the safest idea
 
Smokey+george said:
with the ‘bullying’ how best can I deal with this?
Click to expand...

Actual bullying is a specific sustained behaviour which is so much more than normal dominance. Its where a piggy is picked on so much they either become withdrawn and depressed or they get so fed up with it that they fight back (as in an actual fight). They may lose weight through being chased away from food. The humping may become so incessant that they can't rest without being harassed. That is bond breaking and the only way to deal with it is permanent separation.

This is the guide which explains it

Wiebke

Thread 'Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?'

Overview
1 The hormonal teenage months
- What are the most difficult times?
- What are your boars' chances of making it together?
- What can help to boost your boys' chances?
- What does NOT work?
2 Fighting, bullying and when to separate
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
- What to do if your boars had a bloody fight?
3 Life after...
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