2 brothers who don’t get on!

northerncoupe

northerncoupe

New Born Pup
Joined
Jun 26, 2021
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Points
20
Location
Leeds
Hello everyone,

What an amazing forum! I’ve been reading and searching but can’t quite get the advice I need. Please can anyone help?

We have two 9 month old brothers called Doove and Dave who have lived inside since we brought them home. They lived in a 120cm x 50cm single storey cage in our children’s playroom. For a few months Doove has been aggressive towards Dave, biting, pulling fur out and being very dominant. Dave always looks timid and scared. We wanted to move them outside as the mess in the playroom from Doove chasing Dave all the time is not hygienic.

We bought a double outside hutch today (ascot) from our local pet shop and we have put them outside. I have separated them, one on top the other on the bottom. There is a stair so could open the hatch in the middle.

So my question really is…is this too much change? They are both currently hiding in their plastic houses in the outside hutch.
Should we open the hatch so they can go up and down the ladder? Or should we wait it out and see if they are happy? I am sure Dave will be happier without being bitten and chased all the time. Also should we cover the cage with tarpaulin at night?

Just wanting some advice really.

Thanks in advance

Joe
 
Welcome to the forum

if they are fighting and one piggy has become withdrawn and then it sounds as if bullying has ben occurring and sadly bullying is bond breaking. Boars need a lot of space - 120x50 isnt enough room for boars - 150x60cm is the minimum size but 180x60cm is recommended. Lack of space can cause tensions to rise and doesn't enable them to get far enough away from each other which can cause fights to occur. However, character compatibility comes first so even with lots of space, if they aren't compatible, then nothing will fix that.

If their bond is broken and they need to be permanently separated but I'm afraid living one up and one down isnt suitable as they are not able to fully interact and will become lonely. Separated piggies need to be kept side by side so they can have a full range of interaction and companionship even if they cannot live in the same cage.

If they have had a full on injury causing fight, then they will need to be kept apart (side by side as mentioned above).
If they are tense but not fought, then you can give them a couple of days apart and then try a neutral territory reintroduction. Upon reintroduction it will become quite obvious quite quickly whether they still want to be together. If they fight upon reintroduction, then their bond is broken and their separation will need to be made permanent.

The bonds in trouble guide below details how to carry out a trial separation.

Bonds In Trouble
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

I've looked for Ascot hutch online and if it is the one I've found, then I'm afraid its not big enough. If they are to live separately as they cannot get on, then each piggy needs 120x60cm at a minimum, so you would need two cages of that size side by side.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply! I wish I’d have found this forum before buying a top and bottom outside hutch.

Dave has scabs on his bum where Dave has bitten him. They have only ever had one full on fight. I’m apprehensive about keeping them apart outside for the night. They get on at times but Doove chases Dave a lot. Do you think I should keep them together until they get used to it outside? Or is going outside not that strange for them?
 
If they have had a full on fight at all and injuries are being caused, then I'm afraid its over for them. A full on fight means they aren't compatible and unfortunately they dont change their minds about that.

Please dont put them back together at all - it is going to result in more fights and very stressed piggies.

Please do confirm the measurements of the hutch. If it is the one I've found online called ascot, then its not big enough for them to live in even separately as single piggies (ie having one cage each) and its definitely not big enough for them to be in together as a bonded pair (which by the sounds of it they aren't any longer a bonded pair anyway). For single piggies, they need to have a single level cage each measuring a minimum of 120x60cm for each cage.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again for the reply. It’s 110cm x 50cm.
I asked the pet shop manager and he said it would be ok for two.
I have just tried putting them back together. Looked ok for a minute and then Doove attacked Dave and I had to grab Dave and put him back up top. Lots of squealing. I will have to leave it like this for tonight and maybe call the shop and ask if I can return? Was £180! So two hutches next to each other or facing each other would be better?
 
northerncoupe said:
Thanks again for the reply. It’s 110cm x 50cm.
I asked the pet shop manager and he said it would be ok for two.
I have just tried putting them back together. Looked ok for a minute and then Doove attacked Dave and I had to grab Dave and put him back up top. Lots of squealing. I will have to leave it like this for tonight and maybe call the shop and ask if I can return? Was £180! So two hutches next to each other or facing each other would be better?
Click to expand...

Yes, you will need to leave them as they are for tonight. Sorry to say their bond is definitely broken.

I'm sorry the shop gave you bad information. The UK minimum welfare requirement is 120x60cm so the cage you've been sold simply isnt good enough at all. I know those few extra cms doesn't sound much but it all adds up - your hutch makes 5.9 sq ft. the minimum of 120x60 makes 8 square feet, so as you can see its important to give them as much space as possible even as single piggies. However 120x60cm is only really suitable for a sow pair or for a single piggy following a fall out such as this. (It was never going to be big enough for a bonded boar pair who were to live together anyway).
So you are looking to house them in two separate hutches 120x60cm minimum which can be positioned facing each other. The problem with hutches is they cant be put side by side (on the short edge) and still allow interaction as they are usually wooden sided.

Answering your other question, as long as it isnt going to rain, the hutch/es won't need to be covered at this time of year. It is warm enough for them outside overnight usually. It's once autumn comes, if they are to stay outside, that you are going to need to start to take extra precautions - piggies aren't hardy and need to be kept warm (above 15 degrees). I keep my boar pair in a hutch in my shed so if you are planning on them staying outside year round, then we can offer further advice for that if you would like it.
 
Last edited:
Thanks again. Really appreciate your advice. Do you have any recommendations for single hutches?
I think the indoor cage they sold us originally has caused all of this. I think they will come back in in winter. The original cage was 150 x 60 so terribly small for them both. Feel bad for not checking.
 
northerncoupe said:
Thanks again. Really appreciate your advice. Do you have any recommendations for single hutches?
I think the indoor cage they sold us originally has caused all of this. I think they will come back in in winter. The original cage was 150 x 60 so terribly small for them both. Feel bad for not checking.
Click to expand...

It's their incompatibility which caused it, its nothing you did and you cannot influence compatibility, so please dont feel bad. Cage size is important but its not the be all and end all when it comes to boar relationships - If they aren't compatible, they would still fall out if you gave them an entire room - all it would mean is that they could get further away from each other to cool off but that's still not the same thing as having a harmonious relationship and being a well bonded pair.

If they are to come back inside the winter, then you will obviously need another indoor cage. Its easier with indoor cages though as they can be positioned next to each other given they are fully wire so they can still interact through the bars more easily.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top