2+2= Chaos.

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Hi guys, it's been a while since I've posted but I now have 2 new (now 11 week old) girls! I'm looking to bond the babies with my existing 2 piggies who're 11 months old.

Has anyone had experience of bonding 2 piggies with another 2 piggies?

I had them in the run together today, we had mixed results. The new girl Tonks who is the dominant of the two yielded to Cissy, as did Andromeda. However, there seemed to be a bit of an issue with Bella and the new girls in finding their place in the hierarchy.

Things got a bit heated after a while and after Bella launched a round house kick at Tonks (and then at Cissy about 15 mins later) I decided to separate after a few hours of them being together.

What are your thoughts? Is there something I can do to help? I want to be patient as they seem to want to be together, when they were side by side in the runs they were desperate to meet each other. Any advice on this is appreciated!

Thanks!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

This was them in the run today

 

[Swissgreys]

I would say time, time and more time.

With 2 + 2 there is a more complex hierarchy to be sorted out, so I think it will just take time.
As long as no one was hurt, then you are on the right track.
When I introduced a baby to my 2 girls and a boy I thought it would be super simple, but the initial bonding lasted well over 6 hours, and even then I would say it took 3 - 4 days for them all to really settle into a cohesive group.
I thought it would be simple, but I failed to take into account that there were several strong personalities at play!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Thanks so much for your reply, honestly I'm a serious worrier so that probably doesn't help if they can feel it from me. Just walking around the run with a towel begging them to love each other haha.

Did you keep yours in together for all that time or were they in separate cages at night etc? I'm very worried about a fight breaking out suddenly with me not around.

Eventually they're gunna have a 10x6 shed to call home (it hasn't come yet) and I would love for them to share it together and they'll have plenty of space.

No one was hurt, but Bella tackled twice with her hackles up which worries me but I stroked her on the head to calm her down and then she was fine (I probably shouldn't have interfered lol). No blood was shed nor fur ripped out that I could see.

I want to try again on Sunday, any pointers would be fantastic!

 

[Tiamolly123]

So long as they are not pulling hair out or drawing blood, I'd say leave they together. I agree with cavy Kung Fu. They have to sort out their differences. Yep they'd pick up you were nervous. I have 5 in one C&C cage they have been together about 10 months & they still have their squabbles. If you can get them bonded by about 4pm then you can watch them in their cage until you go to bed. I know it's hard not to worry, but go for it. Oh & food in the run & the cage helps when you are bringing them together

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Thanks for your reply!

So I don't need to be too worried about the round house kicks?

I'll put a few bowls of nuggets in and some veg, maybe a hay rack so hopefully they'll be distracted a bit from each other.

I noticed that they wouldn't really stay away from each other which made for a bit of tension. It was sweet they wanted to be close but one inevitably would be backed into a corner and caused problems.

I have a 2x5 double tier hutch that I was planning to put them in if things went well (not a permanent solution as they'll have the shed too) so would they have enough space in that?

It's hard to see the hackles, teeth chattering and flying round house kicks. I know you have to leave them to it but I really don't want anyone to get hurt

 

[Swissgreys]

Thanks so much for your reply, honestly I'm a serious worrier so that probably doesn't help if they can feel it from me. Just walking around the run with a towel begging them to love each other haha.

Did you keep yours in together for all that time or were they in separate cages at night etc? I'm very worried about a fight breaking out suddenly with me not around.

Eventually they're gunna have a 10x6 shed to call home (it hasn't come yet) and I would love for them to share it together and they'll have plenty of space.

No one was hurt, but Bella tackled twice with her hackles up which worries me but I stroked her on the head to calm her down and then she was fine (I probably shouldn't have interfered lol). No blood was shed nor fur ripped out that I could see.

I want to try again on Sunday, any pointers would be fantastic!

Ours had to stay together, or we would have returned the baby (she was 10 weeks at the time, and we were only given her on a trial basis until we could all be sure she would fit into our existing group).

I allowed an entire day for bonding in a neutral pen with only hay and grass as distractions.
I spent a large part of the day sitting on the edge of my chair wearing oven gloves.
The kids had to leave after a while as they found it all too distressing to watch!

I will be honest and say the initial signs were good, but it descended (within about 30 minutes) to teeth chattering, hackles up, fur pulling, and a lot of rumbling and squealing between our dominant sow Ruby, and the baby (Oreo), who decided to 'answer back' when Ruby was explaining who was boss.

But I stuck it out because I had read the bonding guides on here about 100 times, and knew they needed to sort it out in their own way, which although it really was terrifying to watch, was just their way of communicating with each other.
I was on hand the whole time, and was ready to separate at the first sign of real distress, or if a fight where no one backed down and blood was drawn started.

After 7 hours I put them in a large and fully cleaned C&C, and from there on it has been fairly smooth. Like I said before it did take about 3 days for them to fully settle (and me to relax), but I do believe that during this time lots of space and a continual supply of food spread around the cage was key in keeping everyone distracted.
Once I put them back in the cage, we didn't handle them at all until we were sure they were all settled as a group. This was big for us, as we usually handle each of them at least once a day.
Now they all get on well, and I have a new respect for the strong characters of my guinea pigs.

How big is the cage you are planning on putting your 4 into?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi guys, it's been a while since I've posted but I now have 2 new (now 11 week old) girls! I'm looking to bond the babies with my existing 2 piggies who're 11 months old.

Has anyone had experience of bonding 2 piggies with another 2 piggies?

I had them in the run together today, we had mixed results. The new girl Tonks who is the dominant of the two yielded to Cissy, as did Andromeda. However, there seemed to be a bit of an issue with Bella and the new girls in finding their place in the hierarchy.

Things got a bit heated after a while and after Bella launched a round house kick at Tonks (and then at Cissy about 15 mins later) I decided to separate after a few hours of them being together.

What are your thoughts? Is there something I can do to help? I want to be patient as they seem to want to be together, when they were side by side in the runs they were desperate to meet each other. Any advice on this is appreciated!

Thanks!

Hi!
You may find this guide here helpful: Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics

Tonks can take things easy as her position is not in question, but Bella as the underpiggy is obviously feeling beleaguered. Give them all more time together again tomorrow to work through the worst of the dominance and settle the hierarchy; ideally at least several hours. Hopefully, Bella is a bit calmer again by then. Thankfully, you can do group bondings over the course of a couple (or even several) days, as long as the girls have some hours in one go each time to work through the small print.

Group dominance takes about 2 weeks on average to settle fully in my own experience. It works its way down the ladder. The worst is always from the piggy ranked just above the newcomer(s).

 

[lexi468]

Thanks for your reply!

So I don't need to be too worried about the round house kicks?

I'll put a few bowls of nuggets in and some veg, maybe a hay rack so hopefully they'll be distracted a bit from each other.

I noticed that they wouldn't really stay away from each other which made for a bit of tension. It was sweet they wanted to be close but one inevitably would be backed into a corner and caused problems.

I have a 2x5 double tier hutch that I was planning to put them in if things went well (not a permanent solution as they'll have the shed too) so would they have enough space in that?

It's hard to see the hackles, teeth chattering and flying round house kicks. I know you have to leave them to it but I really don't want anyone to get hurt

Just don't forget to give each pig their own pile of hay/food/veg and their own bowl/bottle of water. The last thing you need is for them to be fighting over who gets the food!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Thanks guys!

@Swissgreys They will eventually have their own 10x6 shed but for now I have a 2 tier 2x5 hutch that I was thinking they could go into. Think this is okay?

@Wiebke thanks I'll have a look through that now, Cissy appears to be top pig and that seemed to be sorted out quite quickly but Bella looks like she wants to be second in command, I think it will be between her and Tonks with Andromeda as bottom pig. They just need to work it out I guess... Apparently this can't be done over a cup of tea and with civilised conversation!

@lexi468 yes they each have their own bowl and water bottle anyway, very spoilt they have loads of stuff!

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

@Wiebke I've just studied that thread, thank you I hadn't seen that before. It's explained group bonding thoroughly for me! It also explains why Bella was so edgy.

They all washed while they were together so I thought that was a good sign, glad for it to be confirmed.

Now, due to work I'm unable to dedicate enough time for a full on bonding session until Sunday, do you think that will cause a problem? I hope I haven't messed things up.

 

[Wiebke]

@Wiebke I've just studied that thread, thank you I hadn't seen that before. It's explained group bonding thoroughly for me! It also explains why Bella was so edgy.

They all washed while they were together so I thought that was a good sign, glad for it to be confirmed.

Now, due to work I'm unable to dedicate enough time for a full on bonding session until Sunday, do you think that will cause a problem? I hope I haven't messed things up.

No, but ideally you keep them next to each other so they can continue to interact through the bars and strengthen their bond that way.

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

No, but ideally you keep them next to each other so they can continue to interact through the bars and strengthen their bond that way.

Thanks, yes I can arrange that with their cages. They've had time in the runs where they can see each other through the bars so they should enjoy that, without the hierarchy stuff for the moment aha. The babies chew on the bars trying to force their way through to see the big girls, it's so cute.