1 pigbeing bullied

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Loobloo

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Hi I'm new to the forum but have often read old threadsforhelp. We have 3 guinea pigs, all bought from a pet shop at the same time, just under a year ago.

They are outdoors (live in england) and in our garage in the winter months. They have a 2x2 meter run with attached cage above. We also have a wire run, which we move around the garden for them to have grass in the day.

We were assured that this was plenty of room for them. Apart from a squabble over the bedroom (the dark room in the cage) they have seemed happy ladies.

The problem we have is with fluffy being bullied. Chunk wouldn't let her in the bedroom over christmas. Which we resolved by popping a box with bedding in the run.

But as the other 2 have grown and are a lovely adult size, fluffy is still really small. So we started obsessively watching what was going on.

Examples of what we've found.
1- all pigs are in the run, fluffy goes to the bedroom, chunk is straight up, you hear squeals and fluffy jumps right out

2- as soon as we pop veg in, both chunk and gingy, take any off her.

3-fluffys' ears now have several bite Mark's in them.

We hate seeing this but are at a loss on how to help. We have been cuddling fluffy and giving her veg at the same time, to ensure she's getting her food requirements. There are also 3 bowels off food and 2 racks of hay. We change the run around regularly and have chew toys in there.

Is it that this is just normal behaviour? Is it that perhaps fluffy shoulder be half the size as other guinea pigs? Do they have enough space? Are they board? Are we not giving them enough food?

These are very much loved pets which my boys adore, and we hate thinking we're not looking after them correctly.

Any advise would be gratefully received. Thank you
 
I'm no expert but I think you very lucky that Fluffy is alive . . Not being a alarmist but any bites are a defo No and Fluffy needs to be separated now. Pigs do and once fight starts it will not stop. .
She's be a very frightened and needs your help.
On here are great threads that tell about fighting etc. Binding.
I use them and they help..
 
Loobloo said:
Hi I'm new to the forum but have often read old threadsforhelp. We have 3 guinea pigs, all bought from a pet shop at the same time, just under a year ago.

They are outdoors (live in england) and in our garage in the winter months. They have a 2x2 meter run with attached cage above. We also have a wire run, which we move around the garden for them to have grass in the day.

We were assured that this was plenty of room for them. Apart from a squabble over the bedroom (the dark room in the cage) they have seemed happy ladies.

The problem we have is with fluffy being bullied. Chunk wouldn't let her in the bedroom over christmas. Which we resolved by popping a box with bedding in the run.

But as the other 2 have grown and are a lovely adult size, fluffy is still really small. So we started obsessively watching what was going on.

Examples of what we've found.
1- all pigs are in the run, fluffy goes to the bedroom, chunk is straight up, you hear squeals and fluffy jumps right out

2- as soon as we pop veg in, both chunk and gingy, take any off her.

3-fluffys' ears now have several bite Mark's in them.

We hate seeing this but are at a loss on how to help. We have been cuddling fluffy and giving her veg at the same time, to ensure she's getting her food requirements. There are also 3 bowels off food and 2 racks of hay. We change the run around regularly and have chew toys in there.

Is it that this is just normal behaviour? Is it that perhaps fluffy shoulder be half the size as other guinea pigs? Do they have enough space? Are they board? Are we not giving them enough food?

These are very much loved pets which my boys adore, and we hate thinking we're not looking after them correctly.

Any advise would be gratefully received. Thank you
Click to expand...

Hi!

Please read the advice in the two links below so you can judge whether Fluffy is actually being bullied and happier away from the other two. Ear bites are NOT a good sign - that is an alarm sign for a Dysfunvtional bond. Trios are generally the constellation that is most prone to outsider problems.
No amount of space can help if the personality mix is not right. Sadly people buying pet shop or breeder piggies are not looking for which piggies are hanging out with each other most (i.e. mutual liking and getting on) but how they look. :(

Please always make sure that you have everything in the number you have piggies - hideys, access to hay (ideally in several places), water bottles spaced on different ends of the cage, and food being served in portions that can be eaten easily in one go in bowls spaced well apart so the underpiggy can eat without being thrown out. If necessary have one extra.

If you find that Fluffy is perking up as soon as she is away from your dominant sow, then please split your cage and consider finding her a more congenial friend of her choice by rescue dating. This could be a neutered boar or another sow of any age; mutual liking always comes a long way before any other consideration.
Personally, I would strongly recommend to do a trial separation (as detailed in the guides) now and see what happens. I would think that Fluffy may be much happier being away from the others.

Bonds In Trouble
Moody guinea pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
 
Thank you so much for your advice. I feel really let down by the pet shop. There was no advice about how we should choose our pigs, or what we should have in the cage like beds etc.

I'm going to separate them now and see how fluffy gets on. How long should I give this to see if she's happier, or will it be apparent straight away?

In regards to the other 2, do they have enough space? Or do we need to look into providing more for them?

In regards to fluffy should we give her anything to help build her up?

I'm so upset, they have been very happy until Christmas. Sorry for asking so many questions.
 
Loobloo said:
Thank you so much for your advice. I feel really let down by the pet shop. There was no advice about how we should choose our pigs, or what we should have in the cage like beds etc.

I'm going to separate them now and see how fluffy gets on. How long should I give this to see if she's happier, or will it be apparent straight away?

In regards to the other 2, do they have enough space? Or do we need to look into providing more for them?

In regards to fluffy should we give her anything to help build her up?

I'm so upset, they have been very happy until Christmas. Sorry for asking so many questions.
Click to expand...

It should be apparent pretty quickly whether she is happier on her own or desperate to join her mates.
How old are your girls ? they must be teenagers now (4-14 months), I guess?

Unfortunately even with the best of care you cannot prevent group dynamics taking a turn for the worse. Piggies are as complex personalities as humans, if you ask me, and so is their social interaction.
 
Thank you for the links, very interesting reading. Poor fluffy.

We've had them for 11 months now, but unsure how old they were when we bought them. They were very small when we got them, although we were told that chunk was a little older.

Chunks always been a bit of a grump, and bossed the other 2 around. But has gone up a notch. He also has a random extra toe on each off his back feet, though not a working one.

If fluffy is happier away from the other pair, and needs another friend, would that mean 2 completely different cages?

They certainly are complex little souls. I'm completely smitten. something I wasn't expecting to be, as these were the boys pets. They are very different personalities and in fact match each of my boys in that sense. Cant imagine not having guinea pigs forever now.
 
Yes you’d need two completely different cages. You can’t let two separate pairs have access to each other at any time. If fluffy is happier away and needs a new friend, then it is vital that you go about it the safest way which is via dating at a rescue centre.

You mention ladies in the first post but then say ‘he’ when referring to chunk - do you have two sows and one neutered boar then?
 
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Piggies&buns said:
Yes you’d need two completely different cages. You can’t let two separate pairs have access to each other at any time. If fluffy is happier away and needs a new friend, then it is vital that you go about it the safest way which is via dating at a rescue centre.

You mention ladies in the first post but then say ‘he’ when referring to chunk - do you have two sows and one neutered boar then?
Click to expand...
No sorry, we have 3 girls. It's just I have 3 boys, and 3 brothers so its ingrained to say boy.🤦‍♀️.

Thank you for your advice, I will have a look for rescue centres today. Hopefully they can help with the hutch as well as we can't afford to buy new at the moment.

Piggy dating sounds like a really lovely way to make fluffy happy again.
 
Ok!
Have you been able to do the trial separation?
I’m not sure if a centre would help provide a hutch?
Dating ensures a compatible character piggy is found to ensure a successful bond - she will choose her own friend
 
Well done for coming on here and as King for help and advise.
FLUFFY will tell you very soon if she's happy. . better than being picked on. .
all advise on here to help. Lots guidelines.
All the best.
 
Are they indoors or outdoors? The minimum size cage is 120x60cm but bigger is always better. If you don’t have a big enough one for Fluffy then perhaps you could set up a plan pen for her that’s next to the other two’s cage. That way they can still interact through the bars. And just make sure that it’s secure enough for her not to escape through the gaps.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Ok!
Have you been able to do the trial separation?
I’m not sure if a centre would help provide a hutch?
Dating ensures a compatible character piggy is found to ensure a successful bond - she will choose her own friend
Click to expand...
Just doing the separation now, and to be honest fluffy has not been looking for the other 2.

In regards to rescue they maybe able to help me find a second hand cage. But it was just a thought.
 
Siikibam said:
Are they indoors or outdoors? The minimum size cage is 120x60cm but bigger is always better. If you don’t have a big enough one for Fluffy then perhaps you could set up a plan pen for her that’s next to the other two’s cage. That way they can still interact through the bars. And just make sure that it’s secure enough for her not to escape through the gaps.
Click to expand...
They are outdoors. They have a 2meter x 2 meter run with a hutch on top which they can get with the tunnel. We have a seperate wire run which we move around the garden so they are on fresh grass in the day time.

I've currently got fluffy in the wire and she does seem much happier. I'll move it closer to the hutch run later to see. Thank you for your help.
 
Loobloo said:
Just doing the separation now, and to be honest fluffy has not been looking for the other 2.

In regards to rescue they maybe able to help me find a second hand cage. But it was just a thought.
Click to expand...
Yes I would ring around the local rescues, they may have a secondhand cage or hutch they can lend or sell you and you can enquire about piggie dating and at least get on the list for when they open doors again. Whereabouts are you located? perhaps a member might have one they could lend you till you are sorted?
 
do be aware that when you move her closer to the other two, that the other two might get agitated initially. Ignore that behaviour though as it isn’t them who are the deciding factor - it’s fluffy, if she is happier then they need to be apart. It’ll just be important for interaction that she is next to them until she gets her own new friend
 
Piggies&buns said:
do be aware that when you move her closer to the other two, that the other two might get agitated initially. Ignore that behaviour though as it isn’t them who are the deciding factor - it’s fluffy, if she is happier then they need to be apart. It’ll just be important for interaction that she is next to them until she gets her own new friend
Click to expand...
Gingy and fluffy have been interacting but chunk hasn't gone anywhere near fluffy. The hutch needs it's big clean today so I'm wondering if I should try putting fluffy and gingy in together to see if their happy together.
 
Loobloo said:
Gingy and fluffy have been interacting but chunk hasn't gone anywhere near fluffy. The hutch needs it's big clean today so I'm wondering if I should try putting fluffy and gingy in together to see if their happy together.
Click to expand...

The important thing is to keep two piggies together who get on best - whether that is gingy and chunk or gingy and fluffy is going to have to be your decision based on the interactions they had previously.
 
Can I just add - a 2x2 meter run can be split down the middle with a divider of some sort (even cable tied cardboard at first until you can organise something more lasting, like C&C or metal rabbit run grids, the latter is what I am using when I have to improvise a split run for settling in piggies with social hang-ups next to prospective mates).
You can still have two pair cages that exceed minimal welfare space recommendations (0.6 x 1.2 meters) as you will provide 1x2 meter ground space to each pair. So no major headaches in that respect.
Cage Size Guide
Temporary Housing Solutions?

Here is a video of my own divided run when trying to bond new arrival, neutered boar Macsen with my bereaved ex-single Beryn who had reverted to her old problems after Betsan's deaths. I am using rabbit run grids as a divider and tie them with a bit of string whenever I am dealing with an over excited piggy trying to get to the other side to be on the safe side.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3438686439492920

But it sounds definitely that Fluffy is not happy being part of the trio! So well done for taking her out.
 
Wiebke said:
Can I just add - a 2x2 meter run can be split down the middle with a divider of some sort (even cable tied cardboard at first until you can organise something more lasting, like C&C or metal rabbit run grids, the latter is what I am using when I have to improvise a split run for settling in piggies with social hang-ups next to prospective mates).
You can still have two pair cages that exceed minimal welfare space recommendations (0.6 x 1.2 meters) as you will provide 1x2 meter ground space to each pair. So no major headaches in that respect.
Cage Size Guide
Temporary Housing Solutions?

Here is a video of my own divided run when trying to bond new arrival, neutered boar Macsen with my bereaved ex-single Beryn who had reverted to her old problems after Betsan's deaths. I am using rabbit run grids as a divider and tie them with a bit of string whenever I am dealing with an over excited piggy trying to get to the other side to be on the safe side.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3438686439492920

But it sounds definitely that Fluffy is not happy being part of the trio! So well done for taking her out.
Click to expand...
Oh this is a wonderful solution 🥳🥳 thank you so so much. I spoke to a lovely women who rescues guinea pigs yesterday. She also does the piggy dating! Unfortunately due to the current situation we can't find fluffy new bestie for a while. So this is a wonderful way to keep everyone happy and safe. Huge weight off my mind. Fluffy is definitely happier on her own.
 
Wiebke said:
Can I just add - a 2x2 meter run can be split down the middle with a divider of some sort (even cable tied cardboard at first until you can organise something more lasting, like C&C or metal rabbit run grids, the latter is what I am using when I have to improvise a split run for settling in piggies with social hang-ups next to prospective mates).
You can still have two pair cages that exceed minimal welfare space recommendations (0.6 x 1.2 meters) as you will provide 1x2 meter ground space to each pair. So no major headaches in that respect.
Cage Size Guide
Temporary Housing Solutions?

Here is a video of my own divided run when trying to bond new arrival, neutered boar Macsen with my bereaved ex-single Beryn who had reverted to her old problems after Betsan's deaths. I am using rabbit run grids as a divider and tie them with a bit of string whenever I am dealing with an over excited piggy trying to get to the other side to be on the safe side.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3438686439492920

But it sounds definitely that Fluffy is not happy being part of the trio! So well done for taking her out.
Click to expand...
Also you guinea pigs are super cute.
 
Wiebke said:
Can I just add - a 2x2 meter run can be split down the middle with a divider of some sort (even cable tied cardboard at first until you can organise something more lasting, like C&C or metal rabbit run grids, the latter is what I am using when I have to improvise a split run for settling in piggies with social hang-ups next to prospective mates).
You can still have two pair cages that exceed minimal welfare space recommendations (0.6 x 1.2 meters) as you will provide 1x2 meter ground space to each pair. So no major headaches in that respect.
Cage Size Guide
Temporary Housing Solutions?

Here is a video of my own divided run when trying to bond new arrival, neutered boar Macsen with my bereaved ex-single Beryn who had reverted to her old problems after Betsan's deaths. I am using rabbit run grids as a divider and tie them with a bit of string whenever I am dealing with an over excited piggy trying to get to the other side to be on the safe side.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3438686439492920

But it sounds definitely that Fluffy is not happy being part of the trio! So well done for taking her out.
Click to expand...
I have now sorted the hutch as you suggested so they are all in one space but fluffy is safe. Yaya. Fluffy has been really on edge all day, not eaten or come out of her little bed and racing around when we went closer to add veg. So this new set up is a god send.

When we popped Fluffy in she spent a good 5 mins trying to get into the other side. When the other 2 came down and spotted her they both ran over to see her. They were all poking their noses through and touching each other's noses. They then went on the lick each others noses. They haven't made any sounds thought.

So I'm a bit confused about this reaction. I thought licking is a sign off effection so does chuck actually likes fluffy? Is it that we hadn't got enough bedrooms or hay baskets, or the set up wasn't right.

We have weighed fluffy today in the hope that we can see if she's adding some weight on. Hopefully it will become clearer in a day or. But they are all happier than yesterday or the weekend so fingers crossed.

Sorry for waffling on. 😬😬
 
It may simply be that they are happier to be apart and be neighbours rather than like each other enough to live together
 
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