0.3% Calcium- What Is It Out Of? Calories? Grams Of Food Eaten?

[Lilythepig2017]

When they say your pigs diet should be 0.3% calcium does that mean 0.3% of the calories they consume? Or 0.3% of the food they consume in grams/ kilos?

This site:
https://www.nap.edu/read/4758/chapter/6

Says 8 grams of calcium per kilo of feed. But if you calculate for how much a pig eats in grams a day this has your pig eating 1,000 + mg of calcium daily (don’t have the exact number in front of me just now). More than the human amount! So this cannot be right

But if I calculate for how many calories they eat in a day (I read an adult eats 91 calories a day. Correct me if this is wrong) x 0.3% = 0.273 g = 237mg. This sounds MUCH more normal for a small animal.

Then if 70% of their diet is hay, 70% of their calcium should come from hay (right?). 273mg x 70% = 191 mg of calcium that can come from their hay a day. Then then the remaining 82mg should come from fruits and veggies/ pellets during day then. I am not feeding any pellets so all would have to come from veggies/ herb/ flower forages etc keeping to a good Calcium to Phosphorous ratio.

Any thoughts on this? Does this sound right?

Thank you!

 

[sport_billy]

Sorry I can't help with this... hoping someone with a little more knowledge may be able to help advise. The page just fried my tiny mind I am afraid.

 

[rome_italy]

Hi @Lilythepig2017 , as usual your thread is really interesting!
I have not understood completely what you mean, but on that list there is also written "Requirements for calcium, phosphorus, magnesium and potassium seem to reflect interactions among them", because it is just their ratio that is important and not the single amount.

I write now only what I know. About that book I had an interesting talk just with my vet... but he said two things: that is a book about animals living into laboratories; they don't eat a normal food and don't follow a diet based on "real" food. Their diet is something similar to the parenteral diet (in special plastic bags) human patients have at the hospital in certain situations. Those animals must all follow special diets just for looking similar each other and being useful for the researches.
Moreover those animals are not supposed of living for long...
Actually the guidelines about the diet of guineas were changed few years ago (maybe 2005 or 2009, I don't remember), because of the evidence of the data and the experience of the vets (who meet and talk among them) on PETS, the ones whom we want to see healthy and alive for years. Hence, although Oxbow/Bunny/etc and all their biologists go on with the purpose of finding the best industrial food for our pets (not only guinea pigs), the evidence says that piggies eating very few pellets or no pellets at all have a healthier body (especially bladder/kidney issues). About the calcium, there is an evidence that not only is important the amount of calcium, but also the ratio with phosphorus, because if you eat too much P, in the bloodstream passing and being filtered into your kidneys there will be fr sure a lot of Ca lost from the bones. For this reason the quantity of the vegs (high in P) is limited. Being concentrated only on the amount of Ca seems to be useless... Moreover the absorbtion of Ca depends on the hormones and also on the vit D totally absent on vegs, but seems to be present in grass grown slowly in the light.

Last year I used the calculator online (on Guinea Lynx) for calculating widely the Ca and the P; then I switched to another more natural diet based on fresh grass (recommended by the vets) and I stopped caring of the matter. I have never seen again any white residual on the fleece, although I often feed my piggies with wild herbs like mallow and chicory which are rich of Ca.
Of course I don't know if this diet will work in the future...

Calcium (or better a good balance of Calcium and P) is important because their teeth grow up continuously and according with my vet's data, owners too worried of the calcium, who put piggies on strict low calcium diet often develop troubles with teeth.

Thank you again for your interesting debates. If you like and have time, send me a private message and explain me better your calculations.

 

[Lilythepig2017]

Hi @Lilythepig2017 , as usual your thread is really interesting!
I have not understood completely what you mean, but on that list there is also written "Requirements for calcium, phosphorus, magnesium and potassium seem to reflect interactions among them", because it is just their ratio that is important and not the single amount.

I write now only what I know. About that book I had an interesting talk just with my vet... but he said two things: that is a book about animals living into laboratories; they don't eat a normal food and don't follow a diet based on "real" food. Their diet is something similar to the parenteral diet (in special plastic bags) human patients have at the hospital in certain situations. Those animals must all follow special diets just for looking similar each other and being useful for the researches.
Moreover those animals are not supposed of living for long...
Actually the guidelines about the diet of guineas were changed few years ago (maybe 2005 or 2009, I don't remember), because of the evidence of the data and the experience of the vets (who meet and talk among them) on PETS, the ones whom we want to see healthy and alive for years. Hence, although Oxbow/Bunny/etc and all their biologists go on with the purpose of finding the best industrial food for our pets (not only guinea pigs), the evidence says that piggies eating very few pellets or no pellets at all have a healthier body (especially bladder/kidney issues). About the calcium, there is an evidence that not only is important the amount of calcium, but also the ratio with phosphorus, because if you eat too much P, in the bloodstream passing and being filtered into your kidneys there will be fr sure a lot of Ca [you]lost from the bones[/you]. For this reason the quantity of the vegs (high in P) is limited. Being concentrated only on the amount of Ca seems to be useless... Moreover the absorbtion of Ca depends on the hormones and also on the vit D totally absent on vegs, but seems to be present in grass grown slowly in the light.

Last year I used the calculator online (on Guinea Lynx) for calculating widely the Ca and the P; then I switched to another more natural diet based on fresh grass (recommended by the vets) and I stopped caring of the matter. I have never seen again any white residual on the fleece, although I often feed my piggies with wild herbs like mallow and chicory which are rich of Ca.
Of course I don't know if this diet will work in the future...

Calcium (or better a good balance of Calcium and P) is important because their teeth grow up continuously and according with my vet's data, owners too worried of the calcium, who put piggies on strict low calcium diet often develop troubles with teeth.

Thank you again for your interesting debates. If you like and have time, send me a private message and explain me better your calculations.

Thank you so much for your reply! I completely agree. After reading a lot on this subject I'm not sure the low calcium diet is a good idea either. It seems almost all stones in pigs are caused by calcium carbonate: something only manufactured and found in pellets not found in plants or hay to the best of my knowledge. Furthermore pigs fed a ratio where calcium was slightly lower than phosphorous got stones (i.e a low calcium diet). Those that had more of a 2:1 ratio (ca: p) did not. And just as you said, what's also important is the magnesium and potassium ratios as well. The research also said extra of both prevented stones further.

At the moment I'm feeding just hay, veggies and herbs/ flowers. I want to find out how much calcium she should get a day as I worry about her bone health. Then I can make sure all the ratios are correct with Phosphorous, potassium and magnesium.


I would love to chat to you more about this and will PM you!

 

[rome_italy]

It will be a great pleasure to talk with you, although with me a real and fast chat is impossible, because I usually need a dictionary and time for writing in english...
Long ago I found a chart with nutritional datas of wild herbs and I compared it with the charts of the vegs. I see that every grass and also the herbs which sounds a bit unappropriated because high in calcium is far better that any veg when we consider the balance among the minerals... And in fact the suspected Mallow, so high in calcium (690 mg/100g!) is also high in Phosphorus (180!), hence the ratio is not so catastrophic... and the funny thing is that mallow is considered a wonderful plant for preventing kidney stones, inflammation of the bladder and other diseases. The nature has something we are still quite far to understand...

According to one 2012 study published in The Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmacology, "The leaves in particular have been reported to have potent anti-inflammatory, antioxidant, anti-complementary, anticancer and skin tissue integrity activity. Additionally, an anti-ulcerogenic effect was recently proven, demonstrating that the aqueous extract was more effective than cimetidine, a potent medicine used to treat gastric ulcers."

It is only an example... of the property of this plant which is considered so bad here (Rome now is covered with mallows fresh leaves) but that is maybe not. And guess what? when my piggies eat some leaves of mallow, their wee is clear and not white...

Chat soon! bye for now
Oriana